House of M (all books) Discussion [Archive] - TFW2005

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Twin Twist

07-06-2005, 04:22 AM

So... DISCUSS.

Issue one was a bit... meh. Well written, just not a lot going on. However in issue 2 it's all like "OMG so awesome and weird". And so far no Jean Grey in the "perfect world of muties". Which makes me happy.

Really looking forward to #3 tomorrow.

Boardwise

07-06-2005, 05:39 AM

If I'm going to invest in this, I'll probably wait till teh TPB's are out.

Twin Twist

07-06-2005, 05:49 AM

Get out of my thread then.

*gets stick and chases Boardwise out of the thread*

Boardwise

07-06-2005, 06:42 AM

Get out of my thread then.

*gets stick and chases Boardwise out of the thread*

*Starts sit down protest*
Hell no, I won't go
Hell no, I won't go
Hell no, I won't go

Chrono Grimlock

07-06-2005, 07:43 AM

Loved the ending for the first issue, the second was nice and 'head messy with' and I'd comment on the Spider-Man mini but my comic guy never put my copy away. Boo - Urns!

Twin Twist

07-06-2005, 07:49 AM

tapestry100

07-06-2005, 08:07 AM

see - i thought issue one was by far the better of the first 2 issues - issue 2 is such a filler issue - i understand the point of it, to introduce all the "new" characters, but it didn't really seem to move the story on at all for me - to me the desperation of the both the heroes and magneto/quicksilver on what was going to happen to the scarlet witch was really well portrayed in the first issue - and yeah, the first issue of spider-men was meh at best -

** and off topic ** why is there so much hate for jean grey?

Twin Twist

07-06-2005, 08:11 AM

Cos they keep killing her off and bringing her back killing her off and bringing her back killing her off and bringing her back... STAY DEAD ALREADY.

EMMA AND SCOTT TLA!

Chrono Grimlock

07-06-2005, 11:10 AM

hahahaha I enjoyed seeing Emma and Scott basically having a happy life. Also, I'm wondering how Magneto knows what the heros really want. Has the Prof been a bad boy and tellign secrets? Issue three ships today along with the Ironman and Fantastic Four minis, as I won't be getting them until Sunday... spoilers are welcome. :p

tapestry100

07-06-2005, 12:24 PM

Cos they keep killing her off and bringing her back killing her off and bringing her back killing her off and bringing her back... STAY DEAD ALREADY.

EMMA AND SCOTT TLA!

it's funny how many times i've seen people say this exact thing, yet never seem to mind the fact that magneto has been killed /as many if not more/ times than jean grey, with less plausible explanations to his numerous resurrections, yet it's always taken in stride - it's the nature of her character to come back to life (aka /PHOENIX/) - i mean, sure magneto's the x-men's first and (some may say) greatest villian, but there is a character that really doesn't know the meaning of dead

**back on subject now**

i am looking forward to House of M #3 as well - i hope it actually moves the story along a little more, we've got the fround work now, let's move things along - and i'm torn on buying an of the other minis - i hate getting dragged into all these other side stories when i can get the entire whole story from just the main series alone

Switchblade

07-06-2005, 12:32 PM

Well so far the main title isn't anything special, but I think that's because the first issue was all set-up for the House of M world, and then the second is was all set-up of the House of M world. So far we haven't gotten any kind of a plot moving. I'm sure things will pick up once we actually get a plot.

Spider-Man HoM was great (although I'm not really a fan of the artist). I had intended to pass on the side-minis, but Spidey convinced me to pick up FF and Iron Man this week (even though I'm considerably less than a fan of IM's artist).

And TT, the reason Peter is a "mutant" is because human's are second-class citizens, even the ones with superpowers. And since he got his powers when he was a teenager, he just told everyone he was a mutant. Free ticket up to the ruling class. And under that pretense, he became a huge celebrity, the world's most popular mutant superhero. Of course, the problem is that if he gets found out, it will completely ruin everything he's earned for himself.

Also, I'm willing to bet that HoM Green Goblin isn't Norman Osborn at all. My money's on him being Gwen.

thefrozenred

07-06-2005, 12:58 PM

I'm digging HoM so far...but I'm also a sucker for "What if?" stories. In any case:

HoM #1, personally, I found interesting, if for nothing more than seeing how the X-Men and Avengers react to the news that Wanda is rapidly deteriorating. Cool stuff.

HoM #2 I found a bit bland...it was like, "Let's use 2 or 3 pages of this issue to show how all the other people that we knew from before live now." I'm hoping issue #3 picks up the pace.

I REALLY like Spider-Man: HoM, though. It kind of begs the question, is our 616 Spider-Man the nice guy he is because that's just the way he was born, OR is he the nice guy because of events that shaped him INTO that guy? How will this play out?

I'm also looking forward to Iron Man: HoM, despite the nefarious Pat Lee doing the artwork..

DevilzFan

07-06-2005, 04:00 PM

Issue 1 was fantastic. Issue 2...not so much.

The Spinoff titles don't seem to be that interesting. House of M is looking to be a second rate, B-Movie version of "Age of Apocolypse"

Wreckgar

07-06-2005, 04:42 PM

Spider-Man is... okay. Not loving it, not hating it. It's interesting at best, basicall Pete has every wish he wanted come true, however I don't understand why he's suddenly a "mutant". Perhaps that will be explained.
Rhino made a comment in the book refering to Spider-man not being amutant. Remember Mutant powers start at puberty, the EXACT same time Parker got bitten by the Spider. Easy for him to fake the accident as a mutation.

Primal

07-06-2005, 10:37 PM

EVOLUTION REVOLUTION: BENDIS TALKS "HOUSE OF M"
by Dave Richards (dave@comicbookresources.com), Staff Writer
Posted: July 6, 2005

Reality in the Marvel Universe was washed away by a blinding white light. When the light had faded the world had changed. Mutants are now a majority; humans are headed the way of the dinosaurs and the X-Men's foe Magneto is now the most powerful political figure on the planet. Can the Marvel heroes remember how things were and set them right? This is the story presented in Marvel Comics (http://www.marvel.com/)' "House of M," an eight issue limited series by writer Brian Michael Bendis (http://www.jinxworld.com/) and artist Olivier Copiel. CBR News spoke with Bendis by phone about the series, which promises to alter the face of the Marvel Universe.

The history of the "House of M" world was identical to normal Marvel history, but the outcome of one specific event changed everything. "There's going to be a moment you see where clearly Magneto found a way to change the world's opinion," Bendis told CBR News. "We take an event that happened in Marvel history and it really isn't one of the biggest events of all time, but it's the point where Magneto was able to turn the tide on the anti-mutant government programs and turn the whole world around. What we lay on here is where the world is today based on that event. There was a hint in issue 2. The Sentinel monument is that moment."

Magneto may appear to be the absolute ruler of this new world, but he's not. Not yet at least. "The world governments are exactly where they were. We still have a president and all that. It's just the mutant population has a monarchy that is beginning to overlay it," Bendis explained. "As the world's mutant population overtakes the human population you can see that the system is set up where Magneto would then run it."

The Master of Magnetism did not use force to secure his position of power. "Right now there is still a UN, but they don't do anything without talking to Magneto," Bendis said. "No one feels that they have to, it's that they want to. He doesn't rule with tyranny. He doesn't have to. It's being handed to him. Everyone sees it coming. Of course there's resistance and there's people fighting it."

In issue two readers were given a glimpse of how the mutant dominated world has revolutionized the fields of science and technology. "As mutants were able to really use their brains and their mutant powers to the fullest extent, it would entirely change the technology of our society," Bendis stated. "You'd imagine that someone would invent a better TV just because they had the mutant power to see the world differently. Forge is a perfect example. There's a bunch of characters like that. If they were allowed to let loose without fear of any kind of squashing they would really be able to look at the world and change it."

However not all forms of scientific pursuit are encouraged, as is also shown in issue two. "Science that is anti-mutant is immediately squashed," Bendis said. "Other scientists who want to be working on other things like isolating the mutant gene just to analyze it are not allowed to."

In the old-world humans oppressed and discriminated against the minority mutant population. Now, humans face some of the same treatment in the new world where mutants are in charge. "There's a nature in human beings to oppress people other than themselves," Bendis stated. "Even people who say, 'I would never do that if I was in that situation.' Yet they don't realize they're doing it. Like Hank McCoy and Hank Pym have a conversation and it's a little cold, the conversation. But he doesn't even realize how cold it sounds."

Social commentary is part of the story of "House of M," but Bendis says it's not the focal point of the story. "Commentary is always a tough one with me because it's almost impossible not to make some kind of comment. But the point of this series isn't to make comments. It's more a comment about society, which racism is a part of, than it is about racism, or this or that or fame.

"It's fascinating even just writing mainstream Marvel Comics because Marvel is in the real world. You can really analyze what the real world would be like if Spider-Man flew by. That was my job on 'Ultimate Spider-Man' and 'New Avengers,' what would constitute the need for this kind of team and how would the world react to it? So, the same thing with 'House of M.' You turn it upside down and analyze how the world would react if this was going on. If you don't care about any of this stuff hopefully you'll still enjoy it. It's just impossible to write a story like this and really explore it without getting into some of these issues."

Some readers of "House of M" #1 might have been puzzled at the quiet reactions of characters like Wonder Man and the Beast when The Avengers and X-Men were discussing whether The Scarlet Witch should be killed or could be treated. "Basically, here's Simon, who if you really look at it, may be a total construction of Wanda's from a couple years ago," Bendis explained. "That was one of the deciding factors when we were putting together 'Disassembled.' She literally birthed an entire human being out of energy and everybody goes, 'Yay!' Well wait a second. Where did he come from? I'm not dissing Kurt or Perez because it's a great scene, but it did make me cement the idea of there's been a lot of iffy behavior on Wanda's part. So, there's Simon who was quiet because he's sitting there going, 'Oh man if any of this is true I'm fucked. Does anyone see me?' Also Simon did say, 'I'm absolutely no way giving into killing her.'

"Here's Hank pretty much I'd imagined waiting to see what the score is. He's a scientist. He's analyzing before he makes a grandiose statement either way," Bendis continued. "But I think we can all imagine that there was no way in hell Hank was going to go for killing her."

In issue 3 of "House of M," Wolverine is the character that propels the story forward. "The quest starts with Wolverine and builds to other players, but we really get to see the world though his eyes for that whole issue," Bendis explained. "We open to show you that something very specific happened to him that hasn't happened to anybody else. Not only that, but being an X-Man and an Avenger he kind of ties both groups together in a way that maybe the House of M wouldn't even have put together."

Readers of issue 3 will get a glimpse of Layla Miller, a character that they will meet in issue 4. "She shares a secret with Wolverine that is helpful to unlocking some of the mysteries of the 'House of M.' She's very important to the plot of the story," Bendis said. "On top of that she will be coming out of 'House of M' with purpose and hopefully it will be a nice introduction to people for a new character in the Marvel Universe. She is appearing in a book after 'House of M' and I'm very happy with the writer that's dealing with her and what he has planned for her. Copiel just nails her design and she really looks great."

The plot and action of "House of M" really kick into high gear with issue 3. "The engine start to roll and doesn't stop till we get to issues 7 and 8, which is the big finale," Bendis stated. "Heroes do gather and make a decision. What happens in the end will be shocking to people because we do not put the world back the way we found it and that's a promise. This thing is written and locked. I'll be fascinated to see what the reaction is. It legitimately has not been done before in Marvel Comics."

Some heroes will be reluctant to alter the reality of "House of M." "The thought will be brought up that maybe this was suppose to happen," Bendis explained. "Maybe this is what it's like when the next generation, when the world, evolves. We talked a little in issue 2 that the dinosaurs didnt know it was happening and a meteor hits. Maybe that's what this is. Should it be stopped? Ideas like this are brought up and who they are brought up by may be interesting to some readers."

Readers will learn whether the "House of M" reality was created deliberately or just a product of the Scarlet Witch's mind in issue 7. "Issue 7 is a doozy," Bendis said. "Issue 7 the shit his the fan. It is the biggest fight scene I've ever written, including 'Secret War' and other things. That's when all the zowies come."

The final battle will push heroes to their limits and beyond. "What you are going to get is heroes who in the past may have held back a bit; Cyclops or Rogue are both characters that by just the nature of their powers have to show restraint. Because they're in a fight now that restraint serves no purpose. So you're going to see some of the heroes open up," Bendis explained. " If they don't do something it's over. It's done."

There is a definite mysterious figure or figures operating in opposition to the heroes in "House of M." "I'm a big fan of the antagonist," Bendis said. "Instead of using evil let's say antagonist, the guy who is pushing the story in his own direction. I like when they have a point of view that is arguable. That even though you don't agree with what he does, when he tells you why he's doing it you go, 'I see your point but you're wrong.'"

Bendis was able to reveal the identity of a well-known Marvel villain that plays a significant role in "House of M." In addition to starring in the 3 issue limited series "Fantastic Four: House of M (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=5408)," Dr. Doom will be appearing in "House of M" and will be involved in the book's big finale.

Issue 8 of "House of M" is an aftermath issue that will have a lasting effect on the Marvel Universe. "The aftermath of 'House of M' is pristinely planned," Bendis said. "What we've learned from the history of comics is that they do these events and the aftermath is a disaster. Either there's nothing planned or there's not enough planned or there were some plans but the creators rebelled against them. So when we really sat down with this I said, 'Let's really think about what kinds of stories we get to tell if we do this.' The whole purpose of it is to tell new kinds of stories."

Bendis is excited about the new story telling opportunities that "House of M" will bring to Marvel. "The things that stuck were really just fantastic story ideas by some of my favorite comic book people," he stated. "So not only do we get cool stuff to do in 'New Avengers' but we get to do great stuff in the 'X-Men' books. There are some little special surprises coming down later in the year. They're not spin-offs in the harshest sense of the word. They're totally unique ideas that spawn out of a great idea. Just like when someone takes over 'Spider-Man' and they come up with an idea like Venom. It's a good idea that organically came out of writing Spider-Man. These are the kind of things you'll be getting off of 'House of M'"

When the story is over Bendis hopes readers of "House of M" will have been entertained. "The point of all this is to have some good old fashion Marvel fun," he said. "What I hope they get out of it is at the end of it they go, 'That was a big meal. I'm full. You ever see the movie 'Traffic?' Soderbergh on the commentary talks about giving the audience a meal, a full meal, not just a taste. If you make them sit through something for three hours they should feel totally full at the end."

Writing "House of M" was a difficult and pressure filled task, but Bendis is happy that people are enjoying it. "It's a little daunting, a little nerve wracking. I felt literally like I was going on stage or something," he explained. "I was relieved that people bought it and retailers backed it. So I just want to say thank you to people and I promise you an ending."View:"House of M" #3, Pages 6-7 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/preview.php?image=previews/marvelcomics/houseofm03/page6_7.jpg)
"House of M" #3, Page 8 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/preview.php?image=previews/marvelcomics/houseofm03/page08.jpg)
"House of M" #3, Page 12 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/preview.php?image=previews/marvelcomics/houseofm03/page12.jpg)
Source: Comic Book Resouces (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=5504)

CyclopianVision

07-06-2005, 11:27 PM

Getting house of M and Spidey: House Of M.

Think I'm going to pass on FF and Iron Man.

As far as Spidey goes, yea, it shows that if circumstances were different and he was privileged, that he'd be a jackass.

NSJ23

07-07-2005, 12:44 AM

Omnibus Prime

07-07-2005, 02:39 AM

The history of the "House of M" world was identical to normal Marvel history, but the outcome of one specific event changed everything. "There's going to be a moment you see where clearly Magneto found a way to change the world's opinion," Bendis told CBR News. "We take an event that happened in Marvel history and it really isn't one of the biggest events of all time, but it's the point where Magneto was able to turn the tide on the anti-mutant government programs and turn the whole world around. What we lay on here is where the world is today based on that event. There was a hint in issue 2. The Sentinel monument is that moment."

:peoples:

Well that's..interesting.

Hope it's a book I already have as there'll be a mad scramble for that issue(s), whatever it is, when this 'tidbit' is revealed.

Twin Twist

07-07-2005, 08:22 AM

Meh, issue 3 leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth...

(spoilers)

Hawkeye is in it, and no doubt come back to the regular 616 at the end of the arc.

GAH.

thefrozenred

07-07-2005, 11:48 AM

Meh, issue 3 leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth...

(spoilers)

Hawkeye is in it, and no doubt come back to the regular 616 at the end of the arc.

GAH.

There's already been speculation on other boards that he'll be the new Ronin character in New Avengers, too. (Bendis said that Ronin was involved in Disassembled, so unless it's a Moonknight comeback, there aren't many others that it could be, methinks).

Twin Twist

07-07-2005, 12:01 PM

Boring!

Chrono Grimlock

07-07-2005, 12:56 PM

I thought 'Ronin' was Daredevil... :/

Wreckgar

07-07-2005, 09:29 PM

Yea, that Ronin character hasn't even been mentioned yet he has his own variant cover. I still like to think it's DD. Hawkeye doesn't use batons.

Xcandescent

07-07-2005, 10:05 PM

I liked the first 2 issues, but the 3rd is basically "Wolverine: House of M" -- thereby completely missing the point. Fine, we get to see an incredibly limited and confusing view of the new world through Wolvie's eyes. How about we see a MUCH BETTER view, with more backstory, and leave that stuff to the tie-ins?

The way things are going so far, we probably won't have a good picture of the new universe until it's time to put it away. So much for good pacing.

Oh yeah, the "pivotal event" is spelled out in this issue, albeit in passing. Of course, one might think that KILLING OFF THE FANTASTIC FOUR is a pivotal event too, but hey whatever. One presumes that Galactus was magically wished away as well, though it would be fun to ask whether planets taste better with humans or mutants as topping.

-XCN-

Chrono Grimlock

07-07-2005, 10:24 PM

Doesn't seem like a bad idea to have an issue focus on Wolverine, since it's been hinted that he's the only one who remembers the old MU and may be the one who starts the thread that unravels this Universe. I haven't actually read the issue... so I'm basically pulling stuff outta my ass here.

Switchblade

07-07-2005, 10:43 PM

Oh my God! Hawkeye, a classic Marvel character who would in no way stay dead for more than a few months has actually come back from the dead! Somebody get me some duct tape, the internet is cracking wide open! :rolleyes2

In other things HoM, Iron Man is almost complete and total dreck. The story is far from interesting, and Pat Lee's artwork is absolutely horrible. The man can do an acceptable job with robots, but he can't draw a human to save his life. :thumbdown

Wreckgar

07-08-2005, 03:40 PM

In other things HoM, Iron Man is almost complete and total dreck. The story is far from interesting, and Pat Lee's artwork is absolutely horrible. The man can do an acceptable job with robots, but he can't draw a human to save his life. :thumbdown
I really want to know why Marvel hired Pat and Dreamwave..I mean Engine to do the art after the problems. It's like they have no respect for the artists that got F-ed over. Wrote an e-mail to Wizard today asking it and I'll ask Joe Q at Wizard. $20 says I get a bullshit answer.

As for House of M, surprisingly I'm liking it a lot more than Infinate Crisis. It's basically Radical Concepts (Marvel) vs Supporting Characters in the Spotlight (DC).

And everyone MUST read FF HoM. It's all about DOOM!

DevilzFan

07-10-2005, 03:51 PM

Issue 3 was interesting. Much better than issue 2 anyways.
FF HoM was spectacular. I look forward the the last two issues.
IM HoM was complete and utter crap. I couldn't even get halfway through it. Usually I can deal with bad art if the story is good, but the story was almost as bad as the horrible art. :(

Random Autobot

07-10-2005, 04:43 PM

So is Grant Morrisson getting ANY credit for creating the idea for this when he started new X-Men? Or is marvel fucking him over again?

Wreckgar

07-10-2005, 05:08 PM

Chrono Grimlock

07-10-2005, 05:31 PM

Well I picked up House of M 3, Uncanny X-Men 462, Incredible Hulk 83 and got Ironman and Fantastic Four put on hold(once again, none of my books were added to my pull list). Now, I loved issue three of HoM, having it focus on Wolverine makes perfect sense since he's the only one who remembers the old 616 universe. Incredible Hulk was my first Hulk book in years and I loved it, I'm actually looking forward to the next few issues. Unlike, Uncanny X-Men which was a poorly concived bore.

I'm somewhat pissed at what Marvel calls a tie in. Yeah, I get that the whole Universe was changed, but that didn't effect Rachel or Betsy from Uncanny? Blah. And then the whole series focuses on the New Avengers and Astonighing X-Men, yet neither of those books tie in at all; instead we get forced tie ins with Uncanny X-Men. Boo Urns!

I'm liking it, but it's seems somewhat rushed. The mini should be ending around Sept or Oct, but the Wolverine and Exile tie ins won't end until around Dec or Jan. Saaay what?

Random Autobot

07-10-2005, 05:37 PM

Wiat, when exactly did Grant Morrison create this idea again? And besides the "Magneto Death" issue, when did she even appear in the series?

Yea, Idon't think he did anything for this series. Hell, he left around the same time Bendis was given Avengers and even then, only Disassembled was getting started.

The entire arc he envisioned for New X Men dealt with Mutants becoming the dominant of the species, and the inevitable extinction of humans altogether. This sounds VERY close to what he was getting at, yet never had a chance to get to because the Marvel brass are cow-towing cowards. Typical.

Wreckgar

07-10-2005, 05:46 PM

I never got that impression in the arc. I got that he focused a lot more on "a day in the life of" kind of stories. What is a typical year at Xaviers like? That's my impression

DevilzFan

07-10-2005, 05:56 PM

Ugh...Morrison's run on X-Men. I try to block out that painful memory.

Random Autobot

07-10-2005, 06:07 PM

Ugh...Morrison's run on X-Men. I try to block out that painful memory.

Yeah, complicated, interesting storytelling is such a dreadful thing.

Random Autobot

07-10-2005, 06:10 PM

I never got that impression in the arc. I got that he focused a lot more on "a day in the life of" kind of stories. What is a typical year at Xaviers like? That's my impression

When he rebooted the line, one of the ongoing focuses he wanted to have runthrough the story was all about the decline of homo sapien and the dominance of Homo superior, and how it would affect the marvel world as we knew it.

DevilzFan

07-10-2005, 06:44 PM

Yeah, complicated, interesting storytelling is such a dreadful thing.

complicated? occasionally. Interesting? Not really.

The whole Xorn/Magneto thing? ugh
"Here Comes Tomorrow"? blech
"Assault on Weapon Plus"? Fantomex? Don't make me puke.

God awful stories. Hands down.

Chrono Grimlock

07-10-2005, 07:14 PM

The entire arc he envisioned for New X Men dealt with Mutants becoming the dominant of the species, and the inevitable extinction of humans altogether. This sounds VERY close to what he was getting at, yet never had a chance to get to because the Marvel brass are cow-towing cowards. Typical.

Huh, I thought it was the opposite. I gotta go back and re-read it, maybe.

Anyway, I don't see how Magneto using the Scarlet Witch to completely alter the Marvel reality is the same as more mutants popping up. And I really don't remember Dr. Doom leading the Fantastic Four in his New X-Men run, at any point. Also, how can you say that's what he was getting at? I didn't get that at all and I don't remember him mentioning it anywhere that's that was his overall goal. Do you run the Morrison Fan Club?

Switchblade

07-10-2005, 07:16 PM

Unlike, Uncanny X-Men which was a poorly concived bore.

I'm somewhat pissed at what Marvel calls a tie in. Yeah, I get that the whole Universe was changed, but that didn't effect Rachel or Betsy from Uncanny? Blah. And then the whole series focuses on the New Avengers and Astonighing X-Men, yet neither of those books tie in at all; instead we get forced tie ins with Uncanny X-Men. Boo Urns!
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I thought Uncanny was the second best title I picked up this week (right behind Fantastic Four HoM #1). This is exactly the kind of story that one would expect from Claremont and Davis, it's almost like reading one of the old Excalibur issues, and I enjoyed it immensely.

As for why Betsy and Rachel were unaffected, it looks like it has something to do with the on-going Jamie Braddock arc (Jamie, of course, is capable of altering reality at least as much as the Scarlet Witch). And reall, I don't mind. It's a four-issue story arc featuring my two favorite cast members of the title and a lot of references to old Excalibur stuff. It's only a pity Davis is leaving after next issue. :(

And I don't know about New Avengers, but Astonishing X-Men is in the middle of a storyline and running well behind schedule. No time for that book to tie in to House of M.

Random Autobot: The Age of Apocalypse dealt with mutants becoming Earth's dominant species, too. Does that mean Scott Lobdell et al. should get credit? Chris Claremont also wrote an issue of New Mutants back in the 80s where mutants had become the dominant species and humans were oppressed and forced to live in slums, should he get credit, too? Or should both those cases get credit for Morrison's run?

The Spider

07-10-2005, 08:43 PM

The Spider

07-10-2005, 08:48 PM

Random Autobot: The Age of Apocalypse dealt with mutants becoming Earth's dominant species, too. Does that mean Scott Lobdell et al. should get credit? Chris Claremont also wrote an issue of New Mutants back in the 80s where mutants had become the dominant species and humans were oppressed and forced to live in slums, should he get credit, too? Or should both those cases get credit for Morrison's run?

Come to think of it, some people were thinking "Man, they copied Age of Apocalypse" when they heard early news about HOUSE OF M (before it was even published).

Also, which issue of NEW MUTANTS was that?

Switchblade

07-10-2005, 08:51 PM

Also, which issue of NEW MUTANTS was that?
Issue 49, part of the Magus storyline.

Frequency

07-10-2005, 10:16 PM

While I think Morrison's run on New X-men was freaking fantastic... he had absolutely nothing to do with House of M. They are borrowing a lot of ideas from his run, but it's much, much more to do with ret-conning Morrison's stuff than continuing it... and as much as I love Morrison's run... everything after it(with the exception of Astonishing and Pheonix Endsong) completely crashed and burned trying to ret-con it themselves, so I'm very happy this is happening(Also because House of M is really awesome so far).

Edit: Probably the best example of what I'm talking about is Magneto... awesome death in New X-men, and as much as I think it's awesome he's back, it was A.) Too sudden after the arc, and B.) Completely retarded. I mean, imagine if less than 2 months after the original God Loves Man Kills, Stryker showed up out of nowhere and said "Nah, that wasn't me, I was over here this whole time... must have been someone else. Plus, I wouldn't kill all those people."

... and then Austen brainfarts and ret-cons Xorn back into life, seemingly forgetting that every single aspect of Xorn was made up entirely by Sublime(as somebody who was impersonating Magneto), and as such, never even existed in the first place.

What I've really hoping for is that it's explained that Xorn and Magneto(from New X-men) were both created by Wanda's flipping out, because that's about the only way Magneto and Xorn still actually existing will make any sense at all.

Switchblade

07-11-2005, 10:34 AM

Edit: Probably the best example of what I'm talking about is Magneto... awesome death in New X-men, and as much as I think it's awesome he's back, it was A.) Too sudden after the arc, and B.) Completely retarded. I mean, imagine if less than 2 months after the original God Loves Man Kills, Stryker showed up out of nowhere and said "Nah, that wasn't me, I was over here this whole time... must have been someone else. Plus, I wouldn't kill all those people."

... and then Austen brainfarts and ret-cons Xorn back into life, seemingly forgetting that every single aspect of Xorn was made up entirely by Sublime(as somebody who was impersonating Magneto), and as such, never even existed in the first place.
In all fairness, all these retcons were dictated from Marvel's editors. And Morrison had to know they wouldn't let Magneto stay dead forever. Since it would be a lot harder to explain how he's not dead anymore, they just decided it wasn't him at all.

As for Xorn... well, it's Austen. The man is notorious for not having any sense of continuity. Angelo Torres, anyone? :p

Wreckgar

07-11-2005, 07:40 PM

As for Xorn... well, it's Austen. The man is notorious for not having any sense of continuity. Angelo Torres, anyone? :p
What about Angelo? I thought he was alive at the end of Generation X and then the first I saw of him was hanging on the cross in Holy War.

DevilzFan

07-11-2005, 08:10 PM

Angelo was alive at the end of GenX. He died a few days after being put up on the cross from the wounds.

Wreckgar

07-11-2005, 08:25 PM

That's wh y idon't get where Switchblade is coming from

Switchblade

07-11-2005, 08:29 PM

It's not so much that Austen killed off Skin as part of a highly dubious storyline, it's what he did next. They devoted an entire issue to the fate of Angelo's body, and how the cemetary he was in wouldn't let them bury a mutant there. The problem is that for the entire issue, everybody called him Angelo Torres.. His last name was Espinosa. Austen not only killed off a perfectly good character, he didn't even bother to look up the guy's full name. :p

So yeah, Austen didn't really have the best relationship with continuity. :lol

Wreckgar

07-11-2005, 09:25 PM

Ah! Now that makes sense however you also have to blame the editors.

artiepants

07-14-2005, 03:19 PM

House of M #1.
Dug it, especially the last few 5 or so pages

House of M #2
a bit slow (but understandably so, kinda) sweet-ass last page

House of M #3
now this is where it get's reall good.
Wolverine jumping off the heli-carrier: Hardcore! cutting off Toad's tounge: Hardcore!
I like that Wolvie's also the one who remembers the 'real' world, since normally he's the one who's memories are all jacked up.
and you knew he was coming back, so this is kinda cool. I'm thinking he'll be Ronin too, at the moment...

Uncanny X-Men: House of M:
Caremont and Davis on Excalibur characters and concepts! Sweet!!!
i'm really bummed Davis won't be finishing this arc... :( great issue, can't wait to see how Jamie's going to play into this...

Incredible Hulk: House of M:
good start, great colouring ~ was the aborigine shawman supposed to be Gateway? Nice to have Banner find peace, and then it's ripped away...

Fantastic Four: House of M#1:
holy crap, now this is hardcore.
probably my favorite HOM book single issue so far. Loved the way Doom just seethes his way through the whole thing ~ he should be happy, but he's not...

Spider-Man: House of M #1:
also very strong. Peter shaveing his head was very disturbing to me for some reason. Loved the Rhino. and you know it's gonna be a gutwrencher watching his world fall apart (have you seen the cover to #4?)
for some reason i think Ben is going to be the Green Goblin.

Iron Man: House of M:
I liked Flash being the announcer, and the bits with Tony and Howard and their relationship. but Pat Lee can't draw clear action to save his life.
was cool that he was in the Gold armor at the beginning.

Mutopia X #1
ummmm. WTF? is there any reason i should care about these characters?
The art was oK, but seemed like it was coloured WAY to dark. if this isn't WAAAAAAY better by next issue, ill drop it. there just wasn't a hook for me.
(and really, given the concept, shouldn't Bishop probably NOT EXIST in the House of M? and even if he does, shouldn't he preobably NOT have the M tattoo?)

annyways, so far I'd give the overall story a B, looking forward to where it's gonna go...

tapestry100

07-14-2005, 09:12 PM

see- i was really disappointed that the entire house of m 3 was pretty much devoted to wolverine - yeah, nice touch that /he/ remembers when usually he has the memory problems, but for god's sake, just let the character be for awhile - it drives me crazy how much over-exposure he gets

i think the reason that i disliked the HoM FF so much is because it was written so well to make you really REALLY dislike doom - i'm torn on whether i actually enjoyed the issue or not

HoM iron man? pat lee? marvel should be ashamed of themselves - not just for the fact of hiring pat lee, but also for the fact of how /bad/ his art is in this series

the other issues so far - eh, don't care one way or the other (mutopia x seems to be the most pointless so far)

i am desperately sad that alan davis won't finish his arc :cry - having him and claremont on an excalibur-ish tale is like talking to an old friend - ahh - those were some good stories **goes to look up old excalibur issues**

all in all, the only issues of HoM that i've really enjoyed so far is the uncanny x-men issue - that shows some promise - overall tho, i'm sorry to say this storyline isn't doing much for me - i'm hoping that it gets better as it progresses

artiepants

07-29-2005, 12:18 PM

another 2 weeks, more House of M:

>>>spoilers!!!!<<<

HoM #4: totally loved it. I know not everyone digs Bendis, and iwouldn't want all my books writtin his style, but i do like his style. like the 'assembleing of the team bit' and Emma's portrayal.

The Pulse #10. Was great. love Hawkeyes deduction that it's his job to kill Wanda and his stress over being a 'ghost', and how he could see the paper the way it really looked. So reality's not actually altered so much as has a veil pulled over it...

Cable and Deadpool #17. ummmmmmm, well it was funny. hard to come into the middle of a story and not know what's going on. but it was still very entertaining...

Spider-Man: HoM #2. tied with FF:HoM for my favorite tie-in. loved the Emotion of the last few pages, the way they built up to it, and then just the dread they presented as Pete's house of cards begins to topple... (not a bg fan of Spidey's costume in this...)

New X-Men #?? (HoM tie in #1): was enterataining, but a little inaccesable if you haven't been following the serious ~ i think a little 'who's who' on the recap page would have been a neccesity, since htis most likely was a lot of peoples first issue...

looking forward to more of this story though, i liked the characters i did get to know...

so far so good.

I'm glad that i don't feel like i know where the story's going...
(the dig on Lying in the Gutters in the Pulse newspaper cracked me up, too)

Switchblade

07-29-2005, 06:44 PM

House of M #4 was good. It just worries me a little that it took four issues to get to the actual plot.

Chrono Grimlock

07-30-2005, 10:12 AM

HoM 4 was prolly my favorite issue so far, the Emma Frost scene at the end, "house of Magnus?" I think it was the first time I felt rage through the panel. I must say, I was very let down by the fact Hawkeye was the big surprise at the end of issue three, I expected something shocking and not expected. eh, sall good

Wreckgar

07-30-2005, 10:56 AM