A theory involving Optimus Prime role in the series

[Tarngold]

Ive watched every episode, and kept active track of optimus' key role in the series as a leader. One thing that struck me odd ever since the series started was that he wasnt the leader of the autobots, but leader of a space bridge maintenance crew.

Now with season 3 about to come into effect, i wonder about his role as the series goes on. Hes able to hold is own against megatron, but whats bugged me is that hes much smaller than megs, even though hes still able to fight him nicely. What i think they are planning is eventually involving the Matrix of Leadership in the series, and if they do that, you know primes going to get it eventually, and possibly see a size upgrade. I personally dont know how id feel about the way they present that, but i have a certain feeling that they will do this.

[Particle_Beam]

Ive watched every episode, and kept active track of optimus' key role in the series as a leader. One thing that struck me odd ever since the series started was that he wasnt the leader of the autobots, but leader of a space bridge maintenance crew.

Now with season 3 about to come into effect, i wonder about his role as the series goes on. Hes able to hold is own against megatron, but whats bugged me is that hes much smaller than megs, even though hes still able to fight him nicely. What i think they are planning is eventually involving the Matrix of Leadership in the series, and if they do that, you know primes going to get it eventually, and possibly see a size upgrade. I personally dont know how id feel about the way they present that, but i have a certain feeling that they will do this.Why would TF: Animated need the Matrix of Leadership?
The AllSpark is already an amalgamation of the Matrix of Leadership from the cartoon, the Matrix of Creation from the Marvel comics, and the Allspark Cube from the Bay Movie, emphasizing on the aspect of creating life, while looking like more square-ish version of the Leadership Matrix.

I honestly don't want any Matrix-thingy transform Optimus Prime, as it would diminish his heroicism if he suddenly becomes super-strong and super-tall, now having only to rely on brute power and strenght instead on his leadership tactics and skills.

[Sideswipe80]

I like that Prime is smaller and can still hold his own. It makes me a true hero who overcomes the odds. We are getting to see Prime's status grow before our very eyes. We are seeing the birth of a leader and hero. I'm enjoying how they are building him up and his rivalry with Megs.

[nOObiE do0]

I like it just the way it is.
If they feel they have to give him leadership they should wait to do it till the very last episode.

[LightningZERO]

I just hope the rivalry between Optimus and Megatron will improve. Megatron needs to remember his name!

[shroobmaster]

I just hope the rivalry between Optimus and Megatron will improve. Megatron needs to remember his name!

"Prepare to meet your doom, Rodimus Prime!"
"Optimus Prime"
"Oh"

[My03Tundra]

I think they may be leading up to the death of Ultra Magnus, and Optimus Prime assuming his role as Supreme Commander. THAT could easily happen with Longarm Prime/Shockwave in control of Cybertron while Ultra Magnus and his Elite Guard team are on "away" missions. I'd sure hate to see Jazz get killed, though, as a result of Ultra Magnus' ship being destroyed.

[Lord Of Tetris]

I dunno about Ultra Magnus or Sentinel Prime or any of the "obvious" deaths happening...

This is a kids show, after all. I've seen Teen Titans, Batman: Animated Series, Justice League, etc, and nobody ever really dies. Sure, characters come and go, characters might "die" in a magic explosion with no body, but nobody really dies. If this was the IDW comic series, I'd be right alongside thinking Magnus will die and Optimus becomes leader.

[MetroBoy]

Well, Animated Ultra Magnus could alway get mind-wiped like Animated Arcee did.

While not a physical death for the character, lack of knowledge of his previous life and "deleation" of the experiences that made him a leader would create a huge power vacume. The Autobots, while still holding Magnus in high regard, would need someone with more front line experience to cope with the increasing threat from the Decepticons.

Maybe a little to cerebral for a kids show.... but you never know.

[Magelite]

If Ultra Magnus dies or leaves his position, Sentinal should become the Elite guard supreme commander. At the end of the series Optimus should stick on earth with his friends (although perhaps he would accept leadership of earth's first cybertronian colony, Metroplex city...)

[NeoGutsman]

Why would TF: Animated need the Matrix of Leadership?
The AllSpark is already an amalgamation of the Matrix of Leadership from the cartoon, the Matrix of Creation from the Marvel comics, and the Allspark Cube from the Bay Movie, emphasizing on the aspect of creating life, while looking like more square-ish version of the Leadership Matrix.

I honestly don't want any Matrix-thingy transform Optimus Prime, as it would diminish his heroicism if he suddenly becomes super-strong and super-tall, now having only to rely on brute power and strenght instead on his leadership tactics and skills.

Totally agree with you here. I love how Optimus has grown over the last couple of seasons. That makes it even more fun to root him on as a leader, and more importantly, as a character in the ensemble. To have something like an "Insta Hero(tm)" device like the Matrix of Leadership bulk him up and suddenly make him a leadership genius would destroy what we already know is true: TFA Optimus is already smart, resourceful, and makes use of his friends and team effectively in battle as well as during more civil times repairing Detroit and the people's trust in the Autobots.

[Feralstorm]

My theory is that Optimus Prime will (at some point, maybe series-end) be offered a leadership position, or to be part of the Elite guard, but turn it down because he'd have to leave Earth and/or his crew to do it.

[Ramrider]

I like Optimus how he stands as well. I love how Megatron generally has more trouble with an Autobot maintenance crew than he gets from the whole Elite Guard! :D

[vektsilver]

I just hope the rivalry between Optimus and Megatron will improve. Megatron needs to remember his name!

I Second that I am generally annoyed that there is no history between the two characters. When Ops and Megs battle I have always liked when Megs would say something like not this time autobot even though he knew optimus's name.

Currently we would hear the new megs say this line and its pretty much only because he cant remeber his name :) Actually come to think of it the only thing Optimus really has stopped was Megs getting the all spark.

I hope they finally get to hating each other more on a personal level that seemed to make more of an impact than this general idealism conflict.

[Brave Magnus]

I would say that being stuck in some remote unknown corner of the galaxy gives Megatron a good reason to start hating Optimus. ^^ I really like the ways things are now and i hope to see more developments of their rivality in the next season/s.
As for how Optimus becomes the Cybertron Supreme Commander: well, we already know that Magnus doesnt have good expectations of Sentinel ^^ I dont know if Magnus die, hope not, but if i dont know if he will give his position eventually, maybe its like you guys said: Magnus on Cybertron and Optimus on Earth. Which now that i think about it's the exact opposite of G1 Magnus/Prime. XD

[Zie]

I dunno about Ultra Magnus or Sentinel Prime or any of the "obvious" deaths happening...

This is a kids show, after all. I've seen Teen Titans, Batman: Animated Series, Justice League, etc, and nobody ever really dies. Sure, characters come and go, characters might "die" in a magic explosion with no body, but nobody really dies. If this was the IDW comic series, I'd be right alongside thinking Magnus will die and Optimus becomes leader.

The thing with Justice League, Teen Titans and such is that they weren't robots. And just for the record, both Slade and Terra technically "died" in Teen Titans. I can totally see Magnus "passing on" in Animated, paving the way for Optimus to take command.

Totally agree with you here. I love how Optimus has grown over the last couple of seasons. That makes it even more fun to root him on as a leader, and more importantly, as a character in the ensemble. To have something like an "Insta Hero(tm)" device like the Matrix of Leadership bulk him up and suddenly make him a leadership genius would destroy what we already know is true: TFA Optimus is already smart, resourceful, and makes use of his friends and team effectively in battle as well as during more civil times repairing Detroit and the people's trust in the Autobots.

When Hot Rod turned into Rodimus Prime, his body was given incredible power, but he was still learning to be a leader and was full of self doubt and internal conflict (aka he whined a lot). That could easily happen in Animated because Prime is learning to be a leader now, but what he doesn't have is the muscle (figuratively speaking) to flat out defeat Megatron. The Autobots are winning due to teamwork and luck, not Prime openly fighting Megatron. While he can hold his own, it doesn't last long and there's always some other distraction that comes up to save him and the bots as they rally together for one last final attempt to win the day. As of right now, Prime is still nothing but a "thorn-in-the-side" to Megatron. He'll need to actually win on his own, with no team backing him up, no Starscream attacking Megs from behind, no magical energy crystal exploding and taking everyone with it, to actually be seen as a "rival" to Megatron in this universe.

[Kickback]

I don't really see a rivalry between Optimus Prime and Megatron. I mean, they've seen each other all of three times now (premiere, season 1 finale, season 2 finale) and its been more Starscream being a thorn in Megatron's side than anything (premiere Starscream blows up Megatron, season 2 finale his clones interfere enough to allow the Autobots to stop Megatron, etc.)

I'd like to see Megatron do something JUST to piss off Optimus. Maybe some episode where Black Arachnia starts to come around and really considers joining the Autobots only to have Megatron intervene and mind-wipe her, which then ticks off Optimus Prime to a whole new level and causes him to actively seek out Megatron for revenge (after all, he's a newbie to this leader thing).

[EvaUnit13]

"Prepare to meet your doom, Rodimus Prime!"
"Optimus Prime"
"Oh"
Ironhide: "Optimus Prime's gonna kick your ass!"
Megatron: "I'll beat the shit out of Optimus Prime, then do the same to you, Bumblebee!"
Ironhide: "Bumblebee? I'm not Bumblebee!"

[Max-prime]

Series Three ends with a Five parter involving all the G1 cast (bot and cons) and with Prime gaining some kind of upgrade include a voice change to Peter Cullen .... Nerdgasim ensue with some cases of Head expolsions and Animated stands headed and shoulders with G1 on the TF totem pole maybe a tiptoe above it.

Damn the way my mind thinks !!!

[Vladakris]

I just hope Optimus becomes less of a parent and more of a leader.

[Nachtsider]

If Ultra Magnus dies or leaves his position, Sentinal should become the Elite guard supreme commander.

Primus forbid...

[G1Wheeljack]

I'm not too keen on the subject of Magnus' death, but it would be cool that if he did die a while later Wreck-Gar found him & somehow brought him back to life.

[Pauly T]

One way or another, Magnus is going down. I'd easily wager that Animated will end with Optimus as supreme commander of the Autobots. That means UM has got to go. Hopefully, he goes out a hero.

Personally, I'd really like to see Sentinel immediately succeed Magnus whenever he does fall. I mean, if you think he's unbearable now, he'll be a joy of douchbaggery as an incapable #1 until Optimus takes his rightful place. It'll certainly be fun!

[Particle_Beam]

Why should Animated-Optimus end as the supreme commander of the Autobots? Why shouldn't he retire after all this ordeal and become a civilian bot? He can still be lauded as Cybertron's greatest hero. Perhaps he'll go into politics and become secretary of Alpha Trion, head minister of the Autobot Empire. Or perhaps later president, with Ultra Magnus still in charge of the military.
That is, if this show will have a definitive end.

According to the botcon news, TF: Animated will be produced as long as the line is profitable. That rather looks like this show won't have necessarily a super-happyend. After all, the season 2-ender was meant to possibly end the series, if needed.

[Autobot-Girl]

I think it would be awesome if somehow Prime figured out that his mind got wiped. He was really in the elite guard and got his mind wiped by Megatron when he was in a battle. Originally he was one of the elite guards best men and Megatron DID have a rivalry with him. When the mind wiping happens Optimus blacks out and Magnus saves him. Magnus tells everybody not to say anything about Optimus' past to him (becaue he was secretly jealous)
They allow him to go through the academy again only he fails something and is sent to be on the maintenance crew. Megatron realizes what had happened and doesn't say anything about Primes past to him for fear of awakening his memory. So megatron goes and blows up Magnus and his ship, Magnus one of the only people that knows about Primes past, tells Jazz everything. Jazz is sent into hiding from the on-coming Decepticon forces. Eventually Megs lets slip a bit about Prime's past and eventually it's a race to get to the ppl who know his memory's before Megs gets to them.

[Particle_Beam]

I don't see Megatron being afraid of anyone, and surely not of a little Autobot that is barely half as high as he is. Let's face it, this Optimus doesn't have the strenght to knuckle down Megatron.

And I hope that this stays so. Optimus Prime should beat Megatron because he has good tactics and a reliable team to work with, whereas Megatron might be smart, but has mostly to rely on his superior strenght and skills, because Decepticons are a bunch of traitorous scum that works poorly together when not cowed by a more brutal leader.

[Autovolt 127]

Ultra Magnus dies in the Series finale and Optimus must use the Matrix to defeat Megatron and becomes Supreme Commander.

I'd liked to see that but i like ultra magnus.

[Particle_Beam]

Sounds too much like the G1-Cartoon, where Optimus Prime dies and Hot Rod must use the Matrix to defeat Galvatron and become the Supreme Leader.

Not needed (and I like Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime). I don't want a basic rehash of G1. Thankfully, Animated isn't like that.

[MR.UPGRADER]

Ive watched every episode, and kept active track of optimus' key role in the series as a leader. One thing that struck me odd ever since the series started was that he wasnt the leader of the autobots, but leader of a space bridge maintenance crew.

Now with season 3 about to come into effect, i wonder about his role as the series goes on. Hes able to hold is own against megatron, but whats bugged me is that hes much smaller than megs, even though hes still able to fight him nicely. What i think they are planning is eventually involving the Matrix of Leadership in the series, and if they do that, you know primes going to get it eventually, and possibly see a size upgrade. I personally dont know how id feel about the way they present that, but i have a certain feeling that they will do this.

I've though that too. And I think it would be a very good thing for the show.

But right now Ultra Magnus is the leder of all the autobots.

[ian5555]

Sounds too much like the G1-Cartoon, where Optimus Prime dies and Hot Rod must use the Matrix to defeat Galvatron and become the Supreme Leader.

Not needed (and I like Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime). I don't want a basic rehash of G1. Thankfully, Animated isn't like that.


You prefer a re-hash of the movie?

I hope he eventually becomes Supreme Leader. There is a reason why OP is the most famous Autobot but TFA is a decent take on the story but I'd like more Megatron/OP fights. OP needs to be stronger, bottom line.

[Particle_Beam]

You prefer a re-hash of the movie? Didn't you just read what you quoted? No, I don't. I don't want the 86-movie to be repeated here again.
I hope he eventually becomes Supreme Leader. There is a reason why OP is the most famous Autobot but TFA is a decent take on the story but I'd like more Megatron/OP fights. OP needs to be stronger, bottom line.So that Megatron/Optimus-battles will be reduced to simple melee-battles and knock-out, instead of team-versed skill master versus brutal overpowering warmonger? Surely that can't be the only way.

More Optimus-Megatron-fights, I don't oppose. But simply making him stronger so that he can take on Megatron mano-à-mano? Nah, I'm okay with the power-difference between the two. You do wonder how Optimus might beat Megatron. In the G1-series, Megatron was even weaker than Optimus, and had to rely on cheating, aside from calling the retreat when the Autobots shot longer than 10 seconds at them.

[ian5555]

No, the new Movie not the G1 cartoon. TFA is a re-hash of that so no different then them re-hashing from G1 The Movie.

Yep, that is what I want Optimus to be just as strong as Megatron. So what if he is? The outcome is still always the same and we all know that. At least that way Megatron doesn't look like such an idiot who keeps losing to someone that is way beneath them on the power scale like getting destroyed by Spike in the movie. That was such a hollywood craptastic thing to do. Next thing you know Sari is going to destroy Megatron with one of her karate kicks.

Megatron- "Decepticons!! Rise up and....."
Sari-"HIIIIIIIIYYAAAAA!!!"
Megatron- "Ouch my leg, Decepticons RETREAT!!!"

[AutobotMarine]

I dunno about Ultra Magnus or Sentinel Prime or any of the "obvious" deaths happening...

This is a kids show, after all. I've seen Teen Titans, Batman: Animated Series, Justice League, etc, and nobody ever really dies. Sure, characters come and go, characters might "die" in a magic explosion with no body, but nobody really dies. If this was the IDW comic series, I'd be right alongside thinking Magnus will die and Optimus becomes leader.

Transformers have died in every era so far except for RID, though that was intended to be for kids. ThoughMOST Transformers died in G1, and Beast/Machines. Though since Transformers from my viewpoint is more than just a kids show, anything is possible.

[Particle_Beam]

No, the new Movie not the G1 cartoon.Ah, I see. But how is Animated a re-hash from the Bay-movie? Aside from some graphical similarities (mostly Megatron's Cybertronic alternate form, and him being the source of modern human robots of the 22nd century to the Bay-formers entire technology line since the earliest 20th century), the Animated-universe is really different from the Bay-movie-verse. The Autobots had won the Great War, the Decepticons are a scattered group without leadership, Optimus Prime is a young inexperienced leader of a bunch of misfits, and as noted, he's far far smaller than Megatron. Cybertron is a living world, the Autobots do not live in secrecy, there are no gouverment-conspiracies to sack the cybertronians.
TFA is a re-hash of that so no different then them re-hashing from G1 The Movie.Ehrm, I don't really understand that sentence. Can you please repeat it again in other words?
Yep, that is what I want Optimus to be just as strong as Megatron. So what if he is? The outcome is still always the same and we all know that. At least that way Megatron doesn't look like such an idiot who keeps losing to someone that is way beneath them on the power scale like getting destroyed by Spike in the movie.Animated Megatron has so far won every melee battle against anybody who rose against him. The very first battle against Optimus, he was severely wounded by Starscream's treachery, and still punched the entire crew around like rag-dolls, one-armed. Only through luck and quick thinking did Optimus manage to throw him out. The second time, Megatron trashes Optimus, Bulkhead and Prowl again, without flinching. At the island, Optimus confronts Megatron alone, and gets knocked out. Again, only quick thinking and using the power of the key to overload the AllSpark in the chest of Megatron does he manage to make Megatron retreat. Only the vortex of the experimental space bridge and a coincidently nearby stasis cuff save the chinplates of Optimus at the end of the season-finale of season 2.
Megatron has never looked like an idiot when fighting the Autobots. Quite contrarily. He has been depicted as a terrible menace to the Autobots.
And that's good so. Rather a super-powerful Megatron, than the G1-Decepticon Leader who lost every battle with Optimus and sounded the retreat after 20 seconds of Autobots staring at them sternly. G1-Optimus Prime bitch-slapped the little G1-Megatron every time, till the 86-movie, where he single-handedly turned the tide, shrugged off the blasts from the Decepticons, and then uppercutted Megatron with his mighty fists of doom.
Now, that was one idiot who you always wonder how he and his goons managed to overthrow the Autobots.
That was such a hollywood craptastic thing to do. Next thing you know Sari is going to destroy Megatron with one of her karate kicks. As funny as that would be, so far, nothing indicates that Sari could ever harm a Cybertronian without her key. And TF: Animated isn't Bay-Formers, nor G1 and the 86-movie.
Megatron- "Decepticons!! Rise up and....."
Sari-"HIIIIIIIIYYAAAAA!!!"
Megatron- "Ouch my leg, Decepticons RETREAT!!!"G1-Megatron would indeed do something like that. Of course, the G1-Decepticons were also unable to stop an imobilized human in a wheelchair. :p

[Wazzpinator]

I'm going to probably the only one in this thread to say this, but can we have Optimus leave earth to be replaced by Rodimus? Pretty Please?

[Ramrider]

I hope he eventually becomes Supreme Leader. There is a reason why OP is the most famous Autobot but TFA is a decent take on the story but I'd like more Megatron/OP fights. OP needs to be stronger, bottom line.
Totally disagree. Not so much with the Megs/Prime fights, but certainly that Prime needs to be a physical match for Megatron.

A good story comes from conflict; and a great hero is one that succeeds in defeating his nemesis despite the odds against him. That's the thing I liked most about Beast Machines; you rooted for the Maximals because they had to take on pretty much the entire population of Cybertron to achieve their goals. There was virtually no chance they were going to pull it off, yet they did it anyway.

If Prime's easily a match for Megatron, then where's the challenge? Either Prime beats Megatron straight off (in which case there goes the series), or they just engage in a repeating cycle of stalemates, which really gets old fast.
Were you, perchance, a particular fan of the AEC stuff, where they just skipped the tactics and went straight to the power-ups?

[ian5555]

Ah, I see. But how is Animated a re-hash from the Bay-movie? Aside from some graphical similarities (mostly Megatron's Cybertronic alternate form, and him being the source of modern human robots of the 22nd century to the Bay-formers entire technology line since the earliest 20th century), the Animated-universe is really different from the Bay-movie-verse. The Autobots had won the Great War, the Decepticons are a scattered group without leadership, Optimus Prime is a young inexperienced leader of a bunch of misfits, and as noted, he's far far smaller than Megatron. Cybertron is a living world, the Autobots do not live in secrecy, there are no gouverment-conspiracies to sack the cybertronians.
Ehrm, I don't really understand that sentence. Can you please repeat it again in other words?

You said you didn't want a re-hash of the G1 Movie, I said how is that any different then getting a re-hash of the Bay Movie? The basis of TFA is exactly like Bay's transformers. The main goal was getting the All-Spark and the Decepticons are VASTLY superior to the Autobots in most cases (just like the movie). It also uses humans alot more like the Bay movies. It is the same idea just a few changes thrown in there to make it look like some "break through" storyline lol....

The Autobots had not won the war also. Control of Cyberton doesn't mean they won just like in the G1 Movie Decepticons had control of Cybertron but the war was not over.


Animated Megatron has so far won every melee battle against anybody who rose against him. The very first battle against Optimus, he was severely wounded by Starscream's treachery, and still punched the entire crew around like rag-dolls, one-armed. Only through luck and quick thinking did Optimus manage to throw him out. The second time, Megatron trashes Optimus, Bulkhead and Prowl again, without flinching. At the island, Optimus confronts Megatron alone, and gets knocked out. Again, only quick thinking and using the power of the key to overload the AllSpark in the chest of Megatron does he manage to make Megatron retreat. Only the vortex of the experimental space bridge and a coincidently nearby stasis cuff save the chinplates of Optimus at the end of the season-finale of season 2.
Megatron has never looked like an idiot when fighting the Autobots. Quite contrarily. He has been depicted as a terrible menace to the Autobots.
And that's good so. Rather a super-powerful Megatron, than the G1-Decepticon Leader who lost every battle with Optimus and sounded the retreat after 20 seconds of Autobots staring at them sternly. G1-Optimus Prime bitch-slapped the little G1-Megatron every time, till the 86-movie, where he single-handedly turned the tide, shrugged off the blasts from the Decepticons, and then uppercutted Megatron with his mighty fists of doom.
Now, that was one idiot who you always wonder how he and his goons managed to overthrow the Autobots.

Yes, and he still manages to lose due to silly circumstances OR he avoids conflict all-together. Why are people obssessed with the idea that heroes winning by "luck" is a great story? A good guy doesn't have to overcome unbeatable odds for it to be a great story.


As funny as that would be, so far, nothing indicates that Sari could ever harm a Cybertronian without her key. And TF: Animated isn't Bay-Formers, nor G1 and the 86-movie.

G1-Megatron would indeed do something like that. Of course, the G1-Decepticons were also unable to stop an imobilized human in a wheelchair. :p

You mean like Sari beating both Scrapper and Mixmaster? Making the Decepticons look stupid kinda like that? How is that different from G1 having the wheelchair guy use Teletran 1 to defeat them or whatever he would use?

Totally disagree. Not so much with the Megs/Prime fights, but certainly that Prime needs to be a physical match for Megatron.

A good story comes from conflict; and a great hero is one that succeeds in defeating his nemesis despite the odds against him. That's the thing I liked most about Beast Machines; you rooted for the Maximals because they had to take on pretty much the entire population of Cybertron to achieve their goals. There was virtually no chance they were going to pull it off, yet they did it anyway.

If Prime's easily a match for Megatron, then where's the challenge? Either Prime beats Megatron straight off (in which case there goes the series), or they just engage in a repeating cycle of stalemates, which really gets old fast.
Were you, perchance, a particular fan of the AEC stuff, where they just skipped the tactics and went straight to the power-ups?

AEC? not familair with that.

I never said an easy match for Megatron, i said an even match. Alot of people seem to think that a hero HAS to be the underdog in order for it to be a great story. That is YOUR preference for a story, it's not the REQUIREMENT for a good story. Is Lex Luthor stronger then Superman? No, but they have written some great story's about it. Megatron's strength is his scheming and his lust for conquest and he is very powerful. To see him keep losing because 1) he won't just destroy Starscream once and for all and 2) The autobots get lucky is kinda blah.

Everyone already KNOWS the outcome. The Autobots are going to win. It's not bad for Optimus and Megatron to be equals but Optimus' heart and courage wins out. It's a different take on the great rivalry but to me there really is no rivalry now and hopefully the series will develop long enough so it might become one. But, i didn't like how Megatron was vastly superior to Prime in the movie and I don't particulary care for it here. It's my preference just as yours is the opposite.

I'm just waiting for Megatron to lose because he slips on a banana peel.

[Particle_Beam]

You said you didn't want a re-hash of the G1 Movie, I said how is that any different then getting a re-hash of the Bay Movie? The basis of TFA is exactly like Bay's transformers. The main goal was getting the All-Spark and the Decepticons are VASTLY superior to the Autobots in most cases (just like the movie). It also uses humans alot more like the Bay movies. It is the same idea just a few changes thrown in there to make it look like some "break through" storyline lol....Now I understand. Still, I counted up the differences, and the Movie-formers were equal in strenght. Bumblebee defeated Barricade, for once.
The Autobots had not won the war also. Control of Cyberton doesn't mean they won just like in the G1 Movie Decepticons had control of Cybertron but the war was not over.The Decepticons were routed from Cybertron for 4 million years (cycle). That fact has been established in the very first seconds of TF: Animated.
Yes, and he still manages to lose due to silly circumstances OR he avoids conflict all-together.Those circumstances aren't silly, and he's alone with only two goons on an alien planet with Autobots looking for him. He has to be careful, and he has plans for conquering Cybertron. Putting the Space Bridge-project in jeopardy would make him a bigger fool.
Why are people obssessed with the idea that heroes winning by "luck" is a great story? A good guy doesn't have to overcome unbeatable odds for it to be a great story. Well-told like in Animated, it does make a great story. This sort of story-telling has also been done in Star Wars, Die Hard and James Bond, and they're all terribly popular. Of course, a minority of people don't like it, but they're not important by then.
You mean like Sari beating both Scrapper and Mixmaster?Animated Scrapper and Mixmaster weren't Decepticons by then, just robot burglars after some oil (and even after the branding, still weren't blood-thirsty warriors of doom and destruction). Also, Sari has a magical key to facilitate her achievements. Furthermore, these two aren't evil, just working for anybody who pays them (in oil).
Making the Decepticons look stupid kinda like that? How is that different from G1 having the wheelchair guy use Teletran 1 to defeat them or whatever he would use?The G1-Decepticons were blood-thirsty warriors of doom and destruction, superior in numbers, had laserguns, were willing to stomp humans, and still got outsmarted by an immobilized human in a wheel-chair. The only really competent Decepticons back there were Ravage and Laserbeak, and they didn't speak. :D
AEC? not familair with that.Then you're lucky. :)
I never said an easy match for Megatron, i said an even match. Alot of people seem to think that a hero HAS to be the underdog in order for it to be a great story. That is YOUR preference for a story, it's not the REQUIREMENT for a good story. Is Lex Luthor stronger then Superman? No, but they have written some great story's about it.Lex Luthor has the advantage that Superman doesn't punch his face into a million pieces after all those constant attacks on him, and that he's a public figure. Of course, the very fact that the entire world is mindnumbing stupid in the DC-world also helps the villains. The Animated Cartoon-series has then Lex Luthor going into jail, reforming, and in the end fighting together with Superman to stop Darkside.
Megatron doesn't have the luxury of the Autobots being nice to him, no public relations, and no allies who would help him. In every iteration of Transformers, Megatron is THE robotic alien invader from space who's going to destroy the world/steal its energy ressources/crush all non-mechanical life in the universe.
Megatron's strength is his scheming and his lust for conquest and he is very powerful. To see him keep losing because 1) he won't just destroy Starscream once and for all and 2) The autobots get lucky is kinda blah.He did kill Starscream. You do remember it. It just happens that Starscream is immortal. He even put a bounty on Starscream, because he interfered all the time. And the Autobots don't win solely on luck, they also use superior team-tactics. But that has been said so many times, if you don't want to acknowledge this, then it's your problem.
Everyone already KNOWS the outcome. The Autobots are going to win. It's not bad for Optimus and Megatron to be equals but Optimus' heart and courage wins out.So they aren't equally strong. If Optimus Prime has equal strenght and skill, all Megatron could at best hope to accomplish is a stale-mate (which he did in the G1-Cartoon).
It's a different take on the great rivalry but to me there really is no rivalry now and hopefully the series will develop long enough so it might become one. But, i didn't like how Megatron was vastly superior to Prime in the movie and I don't particulary care for it here. It's my preference just as yours is the opposite.Bay-formers Megatron wasn't superior. He had the advantage that he could ruthlessly destroy the city and not care about human casualties, which Bay-formers Optimus Prime couldn't allow to happen. Optimus Prime was automatically in a disadvantage the moment the fighting took place in a populated area.
I'm just waiting for Megatron to lose because he slips on a banana peel.Probably an oil-leak, at worst. Although Animated-Megatron has rather been no-nonsense, contrarily to G1-Megatron, who got drunk from sipping Energon, and has to bully his subordinates to clean the underwater base after a flying sky-base fell on it, when they attempted to kidnap a girl that fell in love with an Autobot. :D

[ian5555]

double post. i hate all this multiple quote crap :p

[ian5555]

Now I understand. Still, I counted up the differences, and the Movie-formers were equal in strenght. Bumblebee defeated Barricade, for once.
The Decepticons were routed from Cybertron for 4 million years (cycle). That fact has been established in the very first seconds of TF: Animated.

No way the Autobots were equal in strength to Decepticons and Megatron was CLEARLY more powerful then Optimus. The whole innocents around is a cop out not once did he mention that to my recollection except when Bumblebee was being taken. Hell he was more likely to get more people killed cause Megatron was throwing him around like a !@#$%. Notice when Optimus shots Megatron it barely phases him but when Megs shoots OP it knocks him into a building. Equal strength indeed..lol

The fact that the Decepticons were not on Cybertron doesn't mean the war was over. That is silly.


Those circumstances aren't silly, and he's alone with only two goons on an alien planet with Autobots looking for him. He has to be careful, and he has plans for conquering Cybertron. Putting the Space Bridge-project in jeopardy would make him a bigger fool.

Megatron has to be careful? Lugnut and Blitzwing are more powerful then all 5autobots. The 3 of them could walk into their headquarters and hand each their head in abotu 1 minutes which makes the story even more unbelieveable even for a kid's cartoon. I'd rather see Megatron lose because someone of equal strength beat him then to see him constantly get beat cause a coin landed on heads instead of tails.

Well-told like in Animated, it does make a great story. This sort of story-telling has also been done in Star Wars, Die Hard and James Bond, and they're all terribly popular. Of course, a minority of people don't like it, but they're not important by then.

Well told? HAHA I can't believe you compared TFA to those great stories. Phew....Animated story telling is NOTHING like Star Wars, James Bond (LOL) and Die Hard!! I fail to see the comparison. Uhhh cartoon for kids, movies for adults. There is NO comparison unless maybe in Star Wars they were the underdog.

Minority people? Huh? Did you do a poll on this?



Animated Scrapper and Mixmaster weren't Decepticons by then, just robot burglars after some oil (and even after the branding, still weren't blood-thirsty warriors of doom and destruction). Also, Sari has a magical key to facilitate her achievements. Furthermore, these two aren't evil, just working for anybody who pays them (in oil).

Scrapper and Mixmaster were both HUGE transformers and the notion that them being beat by a maybe what 10 year old is no more stupid then Decepticons being outsmarted by a guy in a wheelchair and is just ludicrous.

I have yet to see this "superior fighting skills team" of yours in action. Are we watching the same Movie and cartoon? cause...wow..All they do is remove or lessen the appearance of anything that would tend to give the Autobots an advantage ie: Dinobots, Omega Supreme, Elite Guard.

Is it the whole fantasyland idea that the autobots B team beats the Decepticons A team regularly? is that somehow great story writing?

[swarlock]

Now with season 3 about to come into effect, i wonder about his role as the series goes on. Hes able to hold is own against megatron, but whats bugged me is that hes much smaller than megs, even though hes still able to fight him nicely. What i think they are planning is eventually involving the Matrix of Leadership in the series, and if they do that, you know primes going to get it eventually, and possibly see a size upgrade. I personally dont know how id feel about the way they present that, but i have a certain feeling that they will do this.

In a word. No.

Why? Becauset Optimus doesn't need to be taller or use brute strength to show he can handle Megatron. He's not Grimlock who is a power house.

[swarlock]

My theory is that Optimus Prime will (at some point, maybe series-end) be offered a leadership position, or to be part of the Elite guard, but turn it down because he'd have to leave Earth and/or his crew to do it.

This I can see happening.

[Particle_Beam]

No way the Autobots were equal in strength to Decepticons and Megatron was CLEARLY more powerful then Optimus. The whole innocents around is a cop out not once did he mention that to my recollection except when Bumblebee was being taken. Hell he was more likely to get more people killed cause Megatron was throwing him around like a !@#$%. Notice when Optimus shots Megatron it barely phases him but when Megs shoots OP it knocks him into a building. Equal strength indeed..lolLol as much as you want, if you don't accept the very fact that the Autobots are always in a disadvantage when fighting in a city only means that you're not interested in a discussion.
The fact that the Decepticons were not on Cybertron doesn't mean the war was over. That is silly. The Great War is over, that is established fact since the very second the recording voice said "Many millions of years ago".
A new war can be started, but this one raging for control over Cybertron was over with the Decepticons leaving Cybertron.

Megatron has to be careful? Lugnut and Blitzwing are more powerful then all 5autobots. And yet Lugnut and Blitzwing were defeated twice, either by being out-tricked, or by being literally shot from a huge supergun, that very much later turns out to be one of those humoungus Guardian bots that blasted Decepticon troopers into little bits.
The 3 of them could walk into their headquarters and hand each their head in abotu 1 minutes which makes the story even more unbelieveable even for a kid's cartoon.And you think the Autobots wouldn't flee if they were beaten so badly? Last time Optimus, Bulkhead and Prowl got trashed by Megatron alone, they fled into the Sumdac Building, and only Megatron's impatience saved them.
I'd rather see Megatron lose because someone of equal strength beat him then to see him constantly get beat cause a coin landed on heads instead of tails.Then prove first that Megatron lost purely out of sheer bad luck. Quite contrarily, every melee was decided by Megatron.
Well told? HAHA I can't believe you compared TFA to those great stories. Phew....Animated story telling is NOTHING like Star Wars, James Bond (LOL) and Die Hard!! I fail to see the comparison. Uhhh cartoon for kids, movies for adults. There is NO comparison unless maybe in Star Wars they were the underdog.It's the stories of few heroes fighting against "unbeatable odds", as you put it out yourself. Funny, isn't it? Because no matter how much you decry TF: Animated as a cartoon or personaly dislike it, it still has this element in common with all these other movies. Beating the odds that don't favor them.
Minority people? Huh? Did you do a poll on this?The very fact those movies have made oozles of money tells everything about their popularity. Also, they're part of pop culture.
Scrapper and Mixmaster were both HUGE transformers and the notion that them being beat by a maybe what 10 year old is no more stupid then Decepticons being outsmarted by a guy in a wheelchair and is just ludicrous.And all they wanted is some oil, not pick up a fight, or trash that little girl. Even after she attacked them unsuccessfully, they were still concerned primarily with searching for oil. Then she lures them in a rigged place and uses her magical key to beat them.
Meanwhile, Chip escapes on his own with the strenght of his arm from the huge Decepticon on his wheelchair.
I have yet to see this "superior fighting skills team" of yours in action. You saw it when Blitzwing and Lugnut arrived on Earth and they fought against the Autobots on the bottom of Lake Eerie, when Starscream fought against the Maintenance crew and the Elite Guard, when our regular heroes fought first against the Dinobots, and so on.
Are we watching the same Movie and cartoon? cause...wow..All they do is remove or lessen the appearance of anything that would tend to give the Autobots an advantage ie: Dinobots, Omega Supreme, Elite Guard. And yet, the Autobot maintenance crew always managed to overcome their disadvantageous situation.
Also, the Decepticons will be (at least for a short while) leaderless once more.
Is it the whole fantasyland idea that the autobots B team beats the Decepticons A team regularly? is that somehow great story writing?They're B-Team because the Elite Guard had personal problems with them, not because they're incompetent. Optimus leads a maintenance crew because he's blamed for the incident regarding Elita-1, Bumblebee and Bulkhead get put on a lowly career-opportunity because Sentinel is just a jerk (although Bulkhead doesn't mind it), Prowl seemed to have team-issues till after the nearly deadly encounter with the bio-monster on Earth, and still reverts to this attitude as soon as he gets upgrades, and Ratchet is grumpy, has flash-backs, a severe trauma, and seems to refuse to leave his old friend Omega Supreme alone.
But as far as combat-capabilities are concerned, they're all quite very able, and when fighting together, a match for the brute strenght of the Decepticons.

Back then in G1, the Autobots on Earth outnumbered the Decepticons massively (you can see the full bulk of the Autobot Earth forces at said episode where Chip rolled away from the Decepticons), had help from the humans (more than enough energy to keep their base working on), were equally capable fighters one on one, had the advantage of the Decepticons behaving like bufoons and Starscream messing up whatever few reliable plans Megatron actually had by shooting him in the back.
It's hard to believe how the Decepticons even managed to have the upper hand 4 million years ago.

The Autobots just won because they were better in every way. It didn't get better for the Decepticons after the 86-movie, where their leader became a lunatic madman, they had to live a scavenger life on the inhospitable planet Char, and even their most powerful fighter Trypticon got regularely pounded by Metroplex. How the Decepticons ever conquered Cybertron in the 86-movie will always remain a question.

[ian5555]

I disagree with everything you said but I just don't have the time to respond to 12 different quotations, that is just pushing it.

I'll just say this, there is a clear difference between overcoming odds and getting lucky it is NOT the same. Bulkhead has a lucky throw and hits Lugnuts button, Omega Supreme comes on line RIGHT when they need him too.

Keep telling yourself the Autobots were pulling punches in the movie, the humans sure weren't worried about killing innocents. It took Rachet, Jazz, Ironhide, Bumblebee AND the humans just to take down Brawl/Devastator.

TFA is a re-hash of Bay's movie and not some breakthrough storyline that is going to win some Pulitzer. I think that is what annoys me the most people act like the storyline and writing is FAR superior to G1 and they all have such character development. g1 has plenty of that and Optimus wasn't a wuss which made it even cooler.

This conversation will never go anywhere I just get a summary of the whole TFA season and how great it is. It's a decent cartoon, nothing earthshattering, a good take on Transformers but it basically steals alot from Bay's movie.

The toys are really cool but my Leader Megatron got knocked over by my beagle thus losing a fight with Optimus so he is very angry atm.

[Particle_Beam]

Keep telling yourself that the Autobots in Animated don't fight good and always only get lucky. If you're not interested in any discussion, so be it.
And if you're still incapable to understand the one similarity I pointed out, then that's truly only your problem.

[ian5555]

Discussion is fine but not when you quote 15 different sentences and respond to each one. It gets to be a little much and I do not have time to spend on a 30 minutes retort.

I never said they didn't fight good you said win because they are a "superior fighting unit" which is untrue alot of tiimes they get lucky hell most of the times something happens just when it needs too (OS transforms twice at just the right moment) or Starscream turns on Megatron. It isn't that Autobot EVER defeating the Decepticons it's always something happened at the last second and Oh cool we won.

Their fights are the exact same every time.

Bumblebee- Shoots stingers, no effect.
Prowl- throw stars. Do they ever hit anything besides the legs?
OP- Throws Axe and slices something
Bulkhead- Throws mace and string and hits something
Rachet- catches something with magnetic do-hickeys


I have no problems I see it for what it is just like I see G1 but I'm not a fanboi of it and can't see any wrong in it. You seem to bust on everything abotu G1 but TFA has is perfect which I find hilarious. TFA has just as many problem with it that G1 had with goofy stories and things thta make you go HUH!!! But hey, it's a kids cartoon it should make adults say that.

Anyway the topic at hand, I liek Optimus being the strongest and wisest of all Autobot and he isn't here but has potential so hopefully the series will last long enough for him to trash Megatron.

I have no problems, truely it is what it is, A Kids Cartoon :)

[deliciouspeter]

I wish they just called him Optimus until he took on a larger leadership role.

[Polenicus]

As far as Animated goes, part of why i LIKE the new series is their take on Optimus. If this had been another try at the Classic, veteran, seasoned leader Optimus, I never could have swallowed the big-chinned, Spacebridge-repairing deal.

So far, they're accomplishing with this series what they tried and failed to do in Season 3 with Rodimus Prime. They're showing a fledgling hero and leader, learning how to do things, making mistakes, doubting himself, and not being a whiny bitch about it. The advantage of the Decepticons have has force the Autobots to be resourceful, and that's shown well when Optimus fights Megatron. He's constantly having to develop new tricks (Like attaching his grapple line to his axe to allow him to throw and retrieve it). This is the beginning of the rivalry, which will one day develop into the intense conflict shown in G1.

That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing a 'Future Imperfect' episode. Zip a few hundred years into an alternate future, and see a grown-up Prime... bigger, seasoned, more powerful, and voiced by Peter Cullen :p But only as a glimpse.

As for Ultra Magnus... I don't see him dying, but I do see him taken out of action for a while, leaving Sentinel Prime as acting Magnus (And proceeding to cock it up all over the place).