I don't get it.

[Lunar_Convoy]

Why is there some TF fans that absolutely hate this show and think G1 is so much better? I mean I myself grew up on G1 and it will always have a place in my heart, but I find Beast Wars and Animated to be more enjoyable because of the character development and most importantly the CONTINUITY. I mean seriously, they had three different origins on how the Constructicons were made.

1. In "Heavy Metal War" Megatron says he built them on Earth.

2. In "The Secret of Omega Supreme" they were friends with everyone's favorite guardian robot until Megatron used some sort of device to turn them into Decepticons. This contradicts the first origin

3. In "Five Faces of Darkness" the constructicons where the ones who built Megatron.......I believe I've made my point here.

Not to mention characters would "die" and somehow come back with no explanation.

Also there were the animation errors...hoo boy did it have a lot of them, but I'm not going to name any.

Then there was the problem if them almost having every single toy appearing in the cartoon which left room for little character development except for characters like Optimus Prime, Megatron, and Starscream, probably for the intent of Hasbro of getting kids to buy the toys. Don't get me wrong, there WAS character development, but I don't think enough of it.

Now I'm not saying animated is perfect, everything has it's flaws (lame human villians) but I don't see HOW TF fans can hate it. I mean THE VERY FIRST THING THEY DO IS SHOW G1 FOOTAGE and there is also references to G1 and other TF serries within some of the characters (like Prime not knowing where his trailer goes) and EVERY SINGLE EPISODE for the most part. Also they take some characters from G1 and improve them greatly then their past counter parts.

Ex: Megatron isn't a ego maniacal idiot and is not afraid to kick some serious ass when the Autobots fight back.

Starscream isn't a whiner and actually secedes in backstabbing Megatron UNOTICED, and is not afraid to go the front of the firing line. Not to mention he whopped the Autobot's cans in the first episode BY HIMSELF, therefore posing an actual THREAT to not only the Autobots but Megatron himself.

I could go on but everything else has been probably said a hundred times before. With all these references and improvements on the characters themselves, it just doesn't make sense for any TF fan to hate animated. Sure it's different, sure I prefer G1 prime but animated prime is definitely worthy of the name, and sure that some characters might be a little different but I believe for the better. It just doesn't make sense to me why some TF fans hate this show...I just don't get it...if any one can tell me, please let me know because it just doesn't make sense.

[nkelsch]

I mean seriously, they had three different origins on how the Constructicons were made.

1. In "Heavy Metal War" Megatron says he built them on Earth.

2. In "The Secret of Omega Supreme" they were friends with everyone's favorite guardian robot until Megatron used some sort of device to turn them into Decepticons. This contradicts the first origin

3. In "Five Faces of Darkness" the constructicons where the ones who built Megatron.......I believe I've made my point here.



Change Megatron's "built" to "Re-built" and everything in G1 fits. And this has been nailed down in TF geewun lore pretty extensively.

[Pauly T]

But the chins, man, THE CHINS!!!! :wink:

[Rodimus Major]

Simple.

Opinion. Some people have different ones.

[Omnius]

Simple.

Opinion. Some people have different ones.

This. Take note of this, folks, and this thread will end well. :)

[Insane Galvatron]

Simple.

Opinion. Some people have different ones.
So you are saying opinions are like that other body part? Everybody has one?

Say it isn't so!?! :D

[Feralstorm]

"We'll just have to agree to disagree."

. "I won't agree to THAT!"

[Lockdown]

Simple.

Opinion. Some people have different ones.

But not all opinions are equal........

[Kickback]

I believe most people dislike the style of animation because it takes away from the possibilities of the series feeling "mature". People want their Transformers to be mature, to be dark and gritty war machines (because, you know, they're fighting a WAR).

Problem is Hasbro has to sell the toys, so they have to market them via the animation and hope for the best.

Some hate it because it just looks and feels too much like a "little kids line". And it does, it really does. But some people enjoy a good story, and Animated has one hell of a story to it, and it makes the toys that we buy feel so much more real.

I could go on, but you either love it for the same reason that everyone else loves it, or you hate it for one of about a billion reasons.

[Chaos Sorcerer]

Well, speaking from someone who really doesnt like animated (more on this in a minute), I certainly dont think G1 is better (aside from the artistic style). The G1 cartoon with few excepticons is really pretty bad, and if you dont view it either as nostalgia or enjoy it for what it is (a campy cartoon), it's just not that good.

That said, my 2 biggest problems with Animated are first and foremost, the art style. I just cant get into it at all. I personally dont find it an appealing asthetic and in my eyes the toys are a giant step back from the 2 years of awesome I just got between classics and the movie line. First and foremost to me are the toys, and i find this line to be wholely unappealing due to being malproportioned and too "cartoony". I dont think they're horrible toys (with the exception of Blitzwing).. like any line some are better than others from an engineering standpoint, but on the whole they seem reasonably well designed. I just dont like the designs, myself.... and if i can't get into the toys, i can't get into the line that much. The media is secondary to me.

My other problem with the show is the fact that it's basically (at least several of the eps i caught) "The adventures of Sari and her McGuffin.. and some Autobots." When it actuallly focuses on the titular *Transformers*, it's a very entertaining show. It just seems to follow the same trend as the anime garbage that came before it and the kid(s) are *way* too important to the central storyline.

But worse than G1? Not even close. Lordy, that show is bad. :lol

[NGW]

You need to watch more episodes of the show then Chaos, as there are a great many episodes where Sari is hardly the focus.

[Legless Pete]

She really becomes a more minor character in season two. It's one thing to not like the show, but to complain about things that have already been fixed is silly. And don't claim ignorance, this is the internet, for chrissakes, we have an entire wiki devoted to this!

[Sol Fury]

She really becomes a more minor character in season two. It's one thing to not like the show, but to complain about things that have already been fixed is silly. And don't claim ignorance, this is the internet, for chrissakes, we have an entire wiki devoted to this!

In his defense, not everyone reads everything, especially if you aren't interested in it to begin with.

I personally stick by the fact that G1 was great for its time, and that Animated is great for the now, not to mention having some of the best writing on a TF series in ages. The one liners are great, especially anything that comes out of Starscream's brigade.

[General Magnus]

I believe most people dislike the style of animation because it takes away from the possibilities of the series feeling "mature". People want their Transformers to be mature, to be dark and gritty war machines (because, you know, they're fighting a WAR).

I think we get both of that. We get the dark mature angle from the comics and sometines the shows (Beast Wars). I don´t complain.

[SuzyPrime]

I personally stick by the fact that G1 was great for its time, and that Animated is great for the now, not to mention having some of the best writing on a TF series in ages. The one liners are great, especially anything that comes out of Starscream's brigade.

Agreed.

I think these comparisons are pointless pissing contests. You can hate G1 all you want, but there are three indisputable facts:

1) G1 has had a significant effect on culture, and an entire generation of kids.
2) G1 spawned millions of loyal fans around the world, which have given the franchise its longevity.
3) Without G1, there would be no TFA, or anything else Transformers for that matter.

In 20 years, if they're still making TFA toys and cartoon series and live-action movies, you can come whack me in the head with a dead fish. Of course, by then we'll all be dead because the Singularity will have occurred and real robots will have taken over the Earth.

[Chaos Sorcerer]

She really becomes a more minor character in season two. It's one thing to not like the show, but to complain about things that have already been fixed is silly. And don't claim ignorance, this is the internet, for chrissakes, we have an entire wiki devoted to this!

In his defense, not everyone reads everything, especially if you aren't interested in it to begin with.

Sol pretty much nailed it. Why would i scour a wiki on something that i wasn't interested in? That's not ignorance, it's indifference. If season two fixes it, then in my eyes the show's probably improved and may warrent a second look, but first impressions tend to be lasting. It didn't appeal to me when i watched due to the reason i stated, so I no longer followed it. If she's marginalized in season two, perhaps I'll pick up the season DVDs when they come out and give it another go.

[General Tekno]

I think the main issue people have is the animation style.

Myself, I like the style, and the fact that the toys look and feel so different than the norm.

[swarlock]

So you are saying opinions are like that other body part? Everybody has one?

Say it isn't so!?! :D

Personally I do. And if they don't like it. I'm OK with that. As I've written elsewhere I really don't like every TF show that's come out.

That being said. I liked G1 then and now and like Animated as well. :)

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I mean seriously, they had three different origins on how the Constructicons were made.

Technically they didnt.You can interpret it that way but they never really gave more then 1 origin.Here let me explain while answering what you posted.


1. In "Heavy Metal War" Megatron says he built them on Earth.

True....but built does not mean "CREATED".Just because he built them on earth does not mean that they were created on earth.

It could also mean that he built them "NEW BODIES" on earth.


2. In "The Secret of Omega Supreme" they were friends with everyone's favorite guardian robot until Megatron used some sort of device to turn them into Decepticons. This contradicts the first origin

It only contradicts the first origin if you assume that he ment he created them on earth.

The word "Built" can have many applications.



3. In "Five Faces of Darkness" the constructicons where the ones who built Megatron.......I believe I've made my point here.

Not really because if they did exsist on Cybertron then there's no reason why they couldnt participated in the building of Megatron.

Also there's no reason to believe that the team of constructions that were shown "building" Megatron were the same team that would later come to earth.

There were 8 Constructions surrounding the table that Megatron was on and the team that came to earth only had 6 members.

I know that none of this was in the minds of the G1 show producers but ZI thought I would just add my 2 cents:drunk

Not to mention characters would "die" and somehow come back with no explanation.

Got no answer for that one.

[Sunstorm9119]

IDK, when I first saw TFA, i absolutely HATED the animation style. The stories were alright, just the look of the bots didn't work for me. Then as I watched it some more, it grew on me, right up until the orgasmic moment they introduced my namesake in "A spacebridge too far".

Ok Hasbro, I like the show now, so don't f**k it up and not make a toy of Sunstorm,alright.....

[Ash from Carolina]

I don't know where the myth started but somehow the idea got started that every fan was the same so we should all like and dislike the same things. Just ain't never going to happen. So if we are alike then if you didn't like something you must be a hater.

I've really enjoyed Animated myself because I'm into the character side of stories. But I can see how some people might not enjoy Animated. It's not always them being a hater that can't accept anything outside of G1, sometimes it's just not a person's cup of tea.

Ouch or let's hope it never becomes a requirement that you have to love everything Transformers to be a Transformers fan or I'm in real trouble.

[optimus major]

Simple.

Opinion. Some people have different ones.

says the person who will get me killed.... :lol jk jk

anyways...my older bro who was around when g1 started HATES animated with a passion (but likes the grimlock figure and lockdown's vehicle mode)

and he gave me a reason as to why...he said...

"let me tell you like this...the robots i grew up with and loved were blocky, while these are too curvy and remind me of the gobots, that is why transformers stayed and gobots died, the blocky look and feel makes them look like robots, not metallic humans"

take it as you will....makes sense to me

[ams]

I believe most people dislike the style of animation because it takes away from the possibilities of the series feeling "mature". People want their Transformers to be mature, to be dark and gritty war machines (because, you know, they're fighting a WAR).That's pretty much it for me. It's hard for me to see these friendly, smiling, cute little dolls and equate them to powerful warmongering or heroic fighting robots. :lol

[nkelsch]

That's pretty much it for me. It's hard for me to see these friendly, smiling, cute little dolls and equate them to powerful warmongering or heroic fighting robots. :lol

But G1 was basically friendly smiling cute little dolls. And it was campy as all hell. I have still yet to see the TF series that had actual hardcore or violence anywhere on TV. They have all been little more than paintball fights, or goofy street-brawls with corny comebacks.

Like have I been watching a weird censored transformers my whole life and there is another version that is violent and serious with real action and destruction?

[Particle_Beam]

I also must have watched the censored Transformers G1-series, where the Autobots played Basketball and had a little funny snowball-fight. And there were mechanical space-plants that eat insecticlones, and another episode with a robotic space egg from which a robotic space monster hatched.

The only time the war really felt brutal and real was in the 86-movie, where the robots actually died.

And that's it.

[ams]

But G1 was basically friendly smiling cute little dolls. And it was campy as all hell.
Oh, I have no overwhelming love for the G1 cartoon; it was occasionally brilliant and frequently a mess... the emphasis in my post was aimed at the toys. The Animated toys are certainly the cuddliest Transformers to date, and I think that's what's making it hard for me to get engaged in them.

But I'm warming up a bit here and there. :)

[axiant]

At least Animated makes Sari/other humans a supporting/minor characters. Cybertron/Armada- kids were:lol equally stars of the show:lol and in Energon the Autobots were basically Kicker's bitches:lol

Seriously, you people need to give the show another chance. There have even been great Animated episodes where Sari/BB are basically either out of focus or written off just for that eps.

[Autovolt 127]

It's the best transform ers series even better than G1.

I hope season 3 kicks ass!!!!!!

[vincheng2k5]

There's also an important distinction between animation "STYLE" and "animation." As a TFA fan, I like the style of the series. However, I will concede that the animation can be pretty poor at times. Characters' faces sometimes seem fatter or smaller, bodies seem twice as big as they should be at times, eyes are too wide apart.....obviously, you can't expect the same level of detail and constant proportionality that you get in animated movies or CGI. However, if you watch other animated shows (like Spectacular Spider-Man) you can see that animation can overcome a lot of these issues. I think if TFA continues and gets a bigger budget, they'll be able to smooth out the animation a little more (much like how later seasons of Family Guy or Spongebob Squarepants appear smoother and cleaner due to better animation).

[nkelsch]

I actually tried to watch Season 2 of G1 yesterday... Let's take a little trip:

*Spike was injured horribly and they transferred his brain to what appears to be spare parts of random autobots lying around. And he becomes CRAZZZZZY. The generic Frankenstein plot.
*Megatron builds a solar needle to siphon nuclear energy out of the core of the sun which some how needs Gears 'I.M.A.Jerk" chip. Besides the Autobots going from oregon to Africa in 2 hours, they are joking around like idiots while fighting while the fate of the solar system, the sun is going to go super nova on us.
*Somehow The decepticons have a secret base in New York City. Ok, they also SOMEHOW sink a building without damage the structure of it and build crazy cybertronian buildings. Every scene NY is empty. And Megatron DEFEATS optimus and instead of just killing him until he is dead, they turn his body into an alligator which somehow is easily within like 5 minutes turned back into Optimus. And after the Decepticons lose, the very real damage of tearing down and rebuilding huge cybertronian buildings is 'fixed' in like an hour.
*Ok... So now the Decepticons use INVISIBLE PAINT like what Spongebob used to prank Mr. Crabs to sneak in and put some brainwashing tool in the energy recharger. Ok, So now the Autobots who are all pissed off and evil just start tearing shit up as a distraction so Megs could steal a satellite that can make unlimited free solar energy. Somehow even Free Solar energy is the devil and Megatron is sent packing.

I mean and season 2 has 45 more god-awful episodes to go! Animateds episodes and coherency is infinitely better than ALL of G1 combined.

Doesn't make G1 bad, I like G1. But if you took those stories and put them on TV today they would be stupid and boring. Just how 1940's dinosaur movies are stupid and boring because they are so backaswards and absurd. People don't love the G1 show, they love the G1 mythos that has be built on the show. They love the expanded mental designs that is based on years of comic and fandom filling in the blanks to complete the characters from the horrible 2-dimensional cores they started as.

[Snow Cat]

TFA's ok, I have no strong opinion on it, because well, it's not aimed at me. G1 will always hold a special place in my heart, because it's what I grew up with.

[SureShot90]

But not all opinions are equal........

As long as you can argument for it, they're all equal IMO.

And as I've stated many times before... people do lay to much into G.1 - heck first season was a tryout to see if the kids we be interested. Story, continuity, errors to heck with it as long it makes onto the charts. G.1 is/was a cartoon. Not a long deep soap opera to explain the how the universe got created.

[Gordon_4]

Let me get this part out of the way first. From any sane story or technical standpoint, Animated is about the best we've ever had. No argument not relying on anything other than logical fallacy is going to dispute that.


Now, as everyone is so fond of pointing out, G1 it seems sucks the big one, but I don't buy that point of view. I buy that you look at it now and its lamentable at best and embarrassing at worst. I do however enjoy many aspects of it more than I do most other shows.

I Like Optimus being the man in charge, equal parts father figure and (80's) warrior instead of a mop jockey who is treated like the Boy who Cried Wolf despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary on just about every subject.

I like Prowl (sort of) being a logic following tactical officer as opposed to a robot version of Mr. Myagi but without the charm, wisdom and experiance to make us take not of what he says instead of assuming he found it on cyberwikipedia

I like Bumblebeen being a more easy going, lets drink beer and ogle chicks sort of a dude (not that he ever did but something tells me he would) instead of Sunstreaker Jr.

Ratchet I'm happy with either way.


It does goes without saying that the Decepticons in Animated are pretty much the sort most of us dreamed about for years.


In fact, comparing the two would be like me driving an '91 Pulsar for a few years and then suddenly driving a Nissan GTR. Experiancing a brand new, top of the range model doesn't make me think my old car is any less charming, enjoyable or reliable but I can say easily which is better.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

But not all opinions are equal........

And how do you determine which ones have more merit????.

Fact is even an opinion based on false information is as equal as any other.

And opinion is just one's personal view.

[shroobmaster]

I still like G1's cartoon alot, but that's because nowadays I see it with "HAHAHA THIS TRANSFORMERS PARODY SHOW IS HILARIOUS" eyes.

[Kickback]

I actually tried to watch Season 2 of G1 yesterday... Let's take a little trip:

*Spike was injured horribly and they transferred his brain to what appears to be spare parts of random autobots lying around. And he becomes CRAZZZZZY. The generic Frankenstein plot.
*Megatron builds a solar needle to siphon nuclear energy out of the core of the sun which some how needs Gears 'I.M.A.Jerk" chip. Besides the Autobots going from oregon to Africa in 2 hours, they are joking around like idiots while fighting while the fate of the solar system, the sun is going to go super nova on us.
*Somehow The decepticons have a secret base in New York City. Ok, they also SOMEHOW sink a building without damage the structure of it and build crazy cybertronian buildings. Every scene NY is empty. And Megatron DEFEATS optimus and instead of just killing him until he is dead, they turn his body into an alligator which somehow is easily within like 5 minutes turned back into Optimus. And after the Decepticons lose, the very real damage of tearing down and rebuilding huge cybertronian buildings is 'fixed' in like an hour.
*Ok... So now the Decepticons use INVISIBLE PAINT like what Spongebob used to prank Mr. Crabs to sneak in and put some brainwashing tool in the energy recharger. Ok, So now the Autobots who are all pissed off and evil just start tearing shit up as a distraction so Megs could steal a satellite that can make unlimited free solar energy. Somehow even Free Solar energy is the devil and Megatron is sent packing.

I mean and season 2 has 45 more god-awful episodes to go! Animateds episodes and coherency is infinitely better than ALL of G1 combined.

Doesn't make G1 bad, I like G1. But if you took those stories and put them on TV today they would be stupid and boring. Just how 1940's dinosaur movies are stupid and boring because they are so backaswards and absurd. People don't love the G1 show, they love the G1 mythos that has be built on the show. They love the expanded mental designs that is based on years of comic and fandom filling in the blanks to complete the characters from the horrible 2-dimensional cores they started as.

This.

[Ash from Carolina]

I see it a bit over the movie section as well and for the life of me I honestly don't see why you have to rip one down to enjoy the other.

For example I like Batman. The Adam West period was odd campy 60's fun but I enjoyed it both as a child watching the re-runs and as an adult watching the re-runs. Batman the Animated Series ended up as my gold standard by which every other series is judged now. Didn't have to rip down Batman Animated just so I could enjoy Batman Beyound. I don't even have to trash the cartoons or Adam West to enjoy the new film frachise.

With Transformers I look for two things, character and cool bad guys. G1 gave me those and I still enjoy Transformers and GI Joe as examples of the 80's cartoon era. Things fell off for a while in story and cool bad guys until Beast Wars when I got hooked again. It's been a while now but Beast Wars still has the coolest Megatron of all. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy Animated Megatron just because Beast Wars Megatron was the bot. Japanese series and live action didn't do it for me in character and cool bad guys but along come Animated and what I wanted was back. Just because I love Blitzwing it doesn't mean that Rumble and Waspinator are crap now.

Or maybe I'm just a really weird person for thinking there is enough room in a fan's heart to love more than one series.

[MGX]

But G1 was basically friendly smiling cute little dolls. And it was campy as all hell. I have still yet to see the TF series that had actual hardcore or violence anywhere on TV. They have all been little more than paintball fights, or goofy street-brawls with corny comebacks.

Like have I been watching a weird censored transformers my whole life and there is another version that is violent and serious with real action and destruction?

Beast Wars...any episode where you set a bot on fire and that bot runs away in flames or when another TF got impaled...all this was the episode where Scorponok accidental turns Primal into a berserker...

Then there's the Agenda and Code of Hero...The Nemesis as well (Depth Charge and Rampage went out real bad...)

[ZeroMayhem]

....Doesn't make G1 bad, I like G1. But if you took those stories and put them on TV today they would be stupid and boring. Just how 1940's dinosaur movies are stupid and boring because they are so backaswards and absurd. People don't love the G1 show, they love the G1 mythos that has be built on the show. They love the expanded mental designs that is based on years of comic and fandom filling in the blanks to complete the characters from the horrible 2-dimensional cores they started as.

Well put. G1 was/is corny and goofy and for every single decent episode you do get like 30 that are somewhere in the realm of lame.

Yet, I like it and I think you raise a good point. A large portion of the G1 love out there does stem from the mythos that grew out of it. Still comparing different series is rarely done on an even field and in twenty years perhaps TF fans will be disusing how lame TF:A is in comparison to a current series. As much as G1 is the corner stone of my personal fandom, if someone asked me to point out the best written TF series I'd say Beast Wars with no hesitation. The problem with any internet discussion is so few try and really keep their opinions in perspective. One person rails against another opinion and things escalate. These "battles" for having one's personal preference be "best" get so tedious, and are pointless. Has anyone's opinion of G1, Animated, or any TF series ever been changed by another's post?

My fondness for G1 can be broken down along the lines of Found childhood memories+ good toys(certainly for the time)+ memorable characters+ cool looking animated robots= TF fan. That formula I'm certain can be applied to any fan no matter what show they grew up with/got them into TF.

So what's my point? Well that all this arguing over series vs. series just goes no where, and it gets difficult for people with differing opinions to have a basic conversation without it devolving into a board fight.

Someone doesn't get how someone can not like Animated, well I don't like it (hate may be a bit strong a word for a cartoon, so if you're looking for blind hatred I may be the wrong fan, but I'll give ya what I got :)). Yes, I can't stand the look of the show, but I gave it a fair chance. Honestly I did make it through both seasons (I know, why bother if you didn't like it right away?). Well one, it's a Transformers show, how could any fan not at least try out a few. Then I kept hearing positive things episodes so I'd catch them online to see if maybe this was the "one" that may hook me. It's not like I enjoyed the idea of not being a fan while being within a fan community. By the end I figured, what the heck, at least when this topic comes up again I can be on equal footing to back up my opinions. No one trying to point out "you should watch this, or that episode cause it will turn you around". Now with season 2 complete, I'm more then happy to walk away and wait for the next new series to come out down the line.

I had hoped the writing would hook me despite the visual style, but that didn't happen. I found most episodes dull, or having plot points that were easy to see coming. I know the show is written with a certain age group in mind who may not know all the old tv show stand-bys, but I've seen other "kid" shows that I thought were better written. Shows that can appeal to an older set while not alienating the younger viewer. Also, after two seasons I personally saw very little character growth (something I enjoyed in BW) beyond their basic stereotypes. Bulkhead, the big tough guy with a heart of gold. Ratchet, the cranky old bot, with a heart of gold, etc etc. Basic cartoon cliques. Now again, it's not like G1 didn't have basic characterization (still not looking to compare 1:1). It's just that it isn't doing it for me in the present show's context. Just to be clear, I'm not saying a TF show has to be "dark" or serious to warrant my interest. There are many cartoons I enjoy that work well as action shows with some drama and comedy worked in. Perhaps the most telling thing for me is that both Animated and Beast Machines (my other least liked TF series) were both worked on by Marty Isenberg (something I did not know when I first started watching Animated). I'm sure that's no coincidence, and I figure I just don't jive with what he brings to a Transformer Universe.

Even the toys for Animated just don't do it for me. I have exactly Zero figures (my roommate has several so I have gone hands-on with them). I'm not opposed to buying a TF:A figure if one comes out that I end up liking, but so far my interest in the toy line mirrors that of the show.

I know it's a long, round-about way of putting it, but there ya go. So hopefully I made an understandable presentation my why I don't like Animated to the OP (Lunar_Convoy). Hopefully those of us who dislike TF:A can get along with those who do (I know that there are some on both sides of the opinion that give their group a bad name, I do not wish to be one of them). I certainly have no issue with anyone's series preference, just as long when I present mine I'm not verbally beaten down for it.

I've talked to a few TF:A fans that were very happy to talk about why they like the series without it being anything more then a friendly chat. I could get where they were coming from even if I didn't share their exact sentiment, perhaps someone will get where I'm coming from.

If not, well I guess I'll just drape myself in ash and sackcloth and wait for the next iteration of Transformers. Perhaps I'll really dig that one.

[shroobmaster]

I can totally see why you're not in love with Animated, and I have no problems with that, the only kind of "hater" that I truly can't stand is the I SAW THE FIRST TRAILER

I SAW CHINS WITH MY EYES

I HATE IT IT SHOULD BURN.

But yeah about the toyline, seriously, get at least Leader Megatron, he's a better toy than both the Cybertron and the Movie dudes.

[ZeroMayhem]

I can totally see why you're not in love with Animated, and I have no problems with that, the only kind of "hater" that I truly can't stand is the I SAW THE FIRST TRAILER

I SAW CHINS WITH MY EYES

I HATE IT IT SHOULD BURN.

But yeah about the toyline, seriously, get at least Leader Megatron, he's a better toy than both the Cybertron and the Movie dudes.

I haven't seen him in a store yet, but I'll be sure to give him a look. Although I did dig the Cybertron Megs (with the silver/Galvatron paint ap).

[Starsabrej]

I believe most people dislike the style of animation because it takes away from the possibilities of the series feeling "mature". People want their Transformers to be mature, to be dark and gritty war machines (because, you know, they're fighting a WAR).

Problem is Hasbro has to sell the toys, so they have to market them via the animation and hope for the best.

Some hate it because it just looks and feels too much like a "little kids line". And it does, it really does. But some people enjoy a good story, and Animated has one hell of a story to it, and it makes the toys that we buy feel so much more real.

I could go on, but you either love it for the same reason that everyone else loves it, or you hate it for one of about a billion reasons.

This is pretty much how I feel. I can't stand the animation style, but I hope Animated is a big success. If this show goes well there is a greater chance of seeing stuff I like (Classics 2).

[SuperBumbleBee]

The only one I ever liked (besides G1) was beast wars. i loved the whole concept of it.

[NemesisBruticus]

I honestly think G1 is pretty bad.

[SuperBumbleBee]

really? why? i've never met someone who didn't like it.

[ian5555]

Sure G1 is goofy, it's almost 25 years old. What from the 80's is considered cool beside some classic movies? TFA is no more mature or less goofy or better written imo. Who can forget Autobots playing twister? or camping out? or BH painting? come on.The animation is too anime style for me but I still enjoy watching some of it. There are some things I would change such as I dunno have the Autobots and Decepticons actually fight each other more then 3 times a season.

TFA will never reach the popularity with kids that G1 did. You couldn't find transformers in 1984 as they were flying off the shelves. It was crazy and they didn't have the help of a movie to make it popular. Luckily for TFA another movie will come along to boost interest in the toys and cartoon about when it prolly would have ended.

I really like the toys, although I still prefer G1, the cartoons are both pretty goofy (I would hope they would be to adults as it's a kids cartoon).

Cartoons in the 80's didn't have storyline that went from episode to epidsode they were 30 minute toy commercials disguised as stories. TFA is doing that too they just keep the story going so it makes it kinda cool, they just need better writing imo.

[Grimlock_13]

really? why? i've never met someone who didn't like it.

Loved it as a kid, and I still like the characters but the cartoon is just bad. Animation errors left and right, cheesy plots and dialogue...you know, just a standard 1980's saturday morning 20-minute toy commercial. Not that I like Animated much more...there's some decent high points but overall it's just yet another G1 rehash.

[Synical]

I've never paid that much attention to the comics or cartoons, I mainly care about the toys. I hate the style of Animated, therefore I hate the style of the toys, therefore, I hate Animated. On top of that, the series is geared much more towards a younger audience than all the recent series'. So obviously, it doesn't appeal to my age group, so I don't like it. It's like asking why I don't like baby rattles or speak and spell's, they'er not not intended for me.

[shroobmaster]

Sure G1 is goofy, it's almost 25 years old. What from the 80's is considered cool beside some classic movies? TFA is no more mature or less goofy or better written imo. Who can forget Autobots playing twister? or camping out? or BH painting? come on.The animation is too anime style for me but I still enjoy watching some of it. There are some things I would change such as I dunno have the Autobots and Decepticons actually fight each other more then 3 times a season.

TFA will never reach the popularity with kids that G1 did. You couldn't find transformers in 1984 as they were flying off the shelves. It was crazy and they didn't have the help of a movie to make it popular. Luckily for TFA another movie will come along to boost interest in the toys and cartoon about when it prolly would have ended.

I really like the toys, although I still prefer G1, the cartoons are both pretty goofy (I would hope they would be to adults as it's a kids cartoon).

Cartoons in the 80's didn't have storyline that went from episode to epidsode they were 30 minute toy commercials disguised as stories. TFA is doing that too they just keep the story going so it makes it kinda cool, they just need better writing imo.

IMO all they need is Onslaught, that sure would boost the Universe's interest in TFA.

[loudstone]

First and foremost to me are the toys, and i find this line to be wholely unappealing due to being malproportioned and too "cartoony". I dont think they're horrible toys (with the exception of Blitzwing).. like any line some are better than others from an engineering standpoint, but on the whole they seem reasonably well designed. I just dont like the designs, myself.... and if i can't get into the toys, i can't get into the line that much. The media is secondary to me.

I love the Animated toys and style, and have been looking forward to Blitzwing. What is it specifically you don't like about him. I'm not looking to get into an argument... I just want to know if I can save myself some cash :D

In 20 years, if they're still making TFA toys and cartoon series and live-action movies, you can come whack me in the head with a dead fish. Of course, by then we'll all be dead because the Singularity will have occurred and real robots will have taken over the Earth.

I see your points, but this comparison isn't really fair. With basically any property, it will be re-imagined every few years, and this re-imagining will be based mostly on the original version. So even if everyone thought TFA was the best thing since sliced bread, in a few years they would still be rebooting Transformers, and the reboot would still be mostly based on G1. Every reboot is influenced by other series as well (Animated has this in the Movie influences in Megatron's Cybertronian form, and RID influences in Prime being a fire truck, and BeastWars influences on the characters Wasp and Black Arachnia, etc), but G1 will always be the root from which all things TF grow - regardless of G1's superiority or inferiority.

I think the main issue people have is the animation style.

Myself, I like the style, and the fact that the toys look and feel so different than the norm.

Yeah, personally I love the fact that with the last two lines of toys, we got the insanely detailed Movie style, and the super clean Animated style. And neither of those take away from my love for Universe 2.0 Classics. I wish I didn't love it all, it would be so much cheaper :)

IDK, when I first saw TFA, i absolutely HATED the animation style. The stories were alright, just the look of the bots didn't work for me. Then as I watched it some more, it grew on me, right up until the orgasmic moment they introduced my namesake in "A spacebridge too far".

Ok Hasbro, I like the show now, so don't f**k it up and not make a toy of Sunstorm,alright.....

Yeah, my first impressions of the style were very negative, but now I love it :D. But just so you know, I'm pretty sure they've confirmed that they will be doing repaints of Starscream as all the clones... though I haven't heard if Femscream will be retooled or not. I hope so, Binaltech Arcee just about made me cry.

"let me tell you like this...the robots i grew up with and loved were blocky, while these are too curvy and remind me of the gobots, that is why transformers stayed and gobots died, the blocky look and feel makes them look like robots, not metallic humans"

take it as you will....makes sense to me

Honestly, it doesn't to me... I'm pretty sure the fact that Transformers were blockier wasn't the reason that Gobots died. But if it makes sense to you, more power to you :thumb

I've never paid that much attention to the comics or cartoons, I mainly care about the toys. I hate the style of Animated, therefore I hate the style of the toys, therefore, I hate Animated. On top of that, the series is geared much more towards a younger audience than all the recent series'. So obviously, it doesn't appeal to my age group, so I don't like it. It's like asking why I don't like baby rattles or speak and spell's, they'er not not intended for me.

Wow, are you just trying to get people all worked up? It's one thing to say that animated is aimed at a younger audience (because it definitely is), but your analogy went a little overboard. :sly2: Assuming you don't want to start a flame war, I'd be more careful.

Also I would dispute that it is geared "much more towards a younger audience than all the recent series'". What exactly was the demographic of the Unicron Trilogy? It may have been older, but not really "much more".

[Roook]

I sort of enjoy Animated, and I really like the toys (I think they are the best Transformers to come out in awhile, my favorite since G1) and I watched the G1 cartoon when I was a kid.

I can break down what I don't like about TF:A in two simple steps.

1. It's aimed at a much younger audience. I understand that's how cartoons need to be now days. But G1 was aimed at kids of the 80s, who could kick the crap out of kids now days. :P Back when we ran around with cap guns and lawn darts. GI Joe and the Transformers ran around with guns, people got shot, people died, there was a very serious war like theme to Transformers. Yeah they had some goofy episodes, and there wasn't much continuity at all, but you didn't feel talked down to. TF:A is definitely aimed at 9-11 years olds, whereas I'd say G1 was aimed at 13-15 year olds, which is a huuuge difference.

2. Optimus Prime. He can be a serious ass on the show. He's pigheaded, stubborn, and doesn't respect his team. They talk back to him and have no respect for him. The first episode I saw was the Blackarachnia one which really colored my view of him as being a coward and something of a moron. Everything from not even looking for Elita-1 to see if she survived, to ordering the dinobots to be destroyed without listening to Prowl's suspicions they had a spark. G1 Optimus Prime is one of those legendary heroes who kids grew up learning morals and courage from. He's a hero. Not so in Animated, where he acts more like a teenager. Also Bumblebee is annoying as hell. So is Sari.

[AutobotMarine]

It's easy to explain, some fans are afraid to change. They're afraid that some shows that attempt to change the overall look and concept, that it will kill the franchise.

Transformers has always received changes since G1. They're not going to completely revert back to the original just for the sake of a few, crazed G1 fans who think G1 is "teh sh*t" and how nothing else compares.

My only beef with this show are some of the animations and designing. If they used the detailed G1 that Hasbro used for the Universe 2.0 trailer and either used G1 or advanced G1-like designs that went into the Unicron Trilogy, I'd bet there would be abseloutely no haters. Except for those small groups of crazed fanboys who only think G1 is the best and nothing else in G1 could ever beat G1.

But eventually, the fans will become more and more persuaded into Animated, and all of the haters will eventually die out. It's just a matter of time.

[Particle_Beam]

GI Joe and the Transformers ran around with guns, people got shot, people died, there was a very serious war like theme to Transformers. What? Wait a minute! What episode of G.I. Joe and Transformers did you see back then in the 80s which had people being shot, and dying from it?

[loudstone]

I sort of enjoy Animated, and I really like the toys (I think they are the best Transformers to come out in awhile, my favorite since G1) and I watched the G1 cartoon when I was a kid.

I can break down what I don't like about TF:A in two simple steps.

1. It's aimed at a much younger audience. I understand that's how cartoons need to be now days. But G1 was aimed at kids of the 80s, who could kick the crap out of kids now days. :P Back when we ran around with cap guns and lawn darts. GI Joe and the Transformers ran around with guns, people got shot, people died, there was a very serious war like theme to Transformers. Yeah they had some goofy episodes, and there wasn't much continuity at all, but you didn't feel talked down to. TF:A is definitely aimed at 9-11 years olds, whereas I'd say G1 was aimed at 13-15 year olds, which is a huuuge difference.

2. Optimus Prime. He can be a serious ass on the show. He's pigheaded, stubborn, and doesn't respect his team. They talk back to him and have no respect for him. The first episode I saw was the Blackarachnia one which really colored my view of him as being a coward and something of a moron. Everything from not even looking for Elita-1 to see if she survived, to ordering the dinobots to be destroyed without listening to Prowl's suspicions they had a spark. G1 Optimus Prime is one of those legendary heroes who kids grew up learning morals and courage from. He's a hero. Not so in Animated, where he acts more like a teenager. Also Bumblebee is annoying as hell. So is Sari.

1. I don't think that G1 was aimed older. It's like you said... that's the way cartoons need to be these days. Cartoons aren't allowed to be as violent as they used to be (at least, not starting before 10pm), and they are expected to tone many things down. That makes it seem like the old cartoons were aimed at an older auidence.

2. I'm thinking they are planning on showing Optimus Prime grow into the hero we know he should be. I think it's a little annoying too, and hope that he comes into his own before too long.

[Tronis]

Yes i can see easily how ppl dont like transformers animated... i myself absolutely hated it when i first seen it... but then being a transformer fan i gave it a chance n love it now. Tho im still not a huge fan of the drawing style the great story has overshadowed that fact and then i own a few of the toys now which also helps enjoy it.

And i actually enjoy all transformers series that i have seen so far the only series i havent seen entirely so far is beast machines the japanese only released series and cybertron but all these series probably have something that i didnt like bout them i cant think of them now off the top of my head because i havent seen most of them in awhile but all of them i still enjoy..

They were all pretty good series for there time u just have to look at them that way not compare them to todays standards..

[Nachtsider]

What? Wait a minute! What episode of G.I. Joe and Transformers did you see back then in the 80s which had people being shot, and dying from it?

Well, if we're talking about the Marvel Comics continuity for both series, people and robots died all over the place...

[ZeroMayhem]

It's easy to explain, some fans are afraid to change. They're afraid that some shows that attempt to change the overall look and concept, that it will kill the franchise.

Transformers has always received changes since G1. They're not going to completely revert back to the original just for the sake of a few, crazed G1 fans who think G1 is "teh sh*t" and how nothing else compares.

My only beef with this show are some of the animations and designing. If they used the detailed G1 that Hasbro used for the Universe 2.0 trailer and either used G1 or advanced G1-like designs that went into the Unicron Trilogy, I'd bet there would be abseloutely no haters. Except for those small groups of crazed fanboys who only think G1 is the best and nothing else in G1 could ever beat G1.

But eventually, the fans will become more and more persuaded into Animated, and all of the haters will eventually die out. It's just a matter of time.

So the only people who don't like TF:A are crazed G1 loyalists and/or those that fear change?

I respectfully and totally disagree. Granted if the show's art design were different I may be at least interested some toys, but even still I find the writing has done nothing for me. It certainly hasn't won me over. I just do not care for the stories and there aren't even any characters I like. I find they range from broad clique to outright annoying. I did like Blitzwing for about 4 seconds when I first saw him. The cold calm (Klink) version seemed like he could be interesting. Of course then he turned into an obnoxious schizo that grates on me with his "wackiness". I think I gave the show enough time, it's won so many over in its two seasons but I'm just not one of them. At this point I don't think any amount of time is going to change that.

[shroobmaster]

Anyone that thinks Animated should be G1 style is officialy in my To-Kill list.

If it was all SERIOUS LEGO BOTS, I wouldn't have these two!
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/1/12/Constructobots_smoking.jpg/800px-Constructobots_smoking.jpg

[Particle_Beam]

Well, if we're talking about the Marvel Comics continuity for both series, people and robots died all over the place...The comics are an entirely different thing (and don't have episodes due to their nature :D). So different in fact, that they had their own convoluted continuity. It's the Cartoon that is the most important thing. That's the most important commercial of the entire franchise, not those badly-coloured, almost non-distingushable drawings.
And in no cartoon episode of G.I. Joe nor Transformers was there any serious death. :rip

[swarlock]

It's easy to explain, some fans are afraid to change. They're afraid that some shows that attempt to change the overall look and concept, that it will kill the franchise.

Transformers has always received changes since G1. They're not going to completely revert back to the original just for the sake of a few, crazed G1 fans who think G1 is "teh sh*t" and how nothing else compares.
.

Unfortunately this is for better or worse what works and sells. And for now I can live with this incarnation.

[ams]

It's easy to explain, some fans are afraid to change. They're afraid that some shows that attempt to change the overall look and concept, that it will kill the franchise.

Transformers has always received changes since G1. They're not going to completely revert back to the original just for the sake of a few, crazed G1 fans who think G1 is "teh sh*t" and how nothing else compares.But the number of people who actually post this way is nearly zero. I've seen few, if any posts that reflect this sentiment, even from the most anti-TFA minded people.
So the only people who don't like TF:A are crazed G1 loyalists and/or those that fear change?Great point. It is possible to not enjoy TFA, and not be a neanderthal "geewunner", just like it's possible to have enjoyed the movie without being "in love with Bay". I'd like to think that most fans can still be forward-thinking enough to understand TFAs value in creating variety and diversity in the franchise, even if it may not be exactly to their taste.

[Roook]

The comics are an entirely different thing (and don't have episodes due to their nature :D). So different in fact, that they had their own convoluted continuity. It's the Cartoon that is the most important thing. That's the most important commercial of the entire franchise, not those badly-coloured, almost non-distingushable drawings.
And in no cartoon episode of G.I. Joe nor Transformers was there any serious death. :rip

Maybe not in GI Joe. :P I admit, I was never a big GI Joe fan. But could you imagine GI Joe getting the 'animated' treatment? It'd be like GI Spongebob Joepants.

As for Transformers. I include the movie as a part of G1. And the first 20 minutes of that is a Transformer massacre. Everyone from Ironhide to Optimus Prime get wasted. Could you imagine Transformers Animated killing off Bulkhead? Or Prowl? No way. I understand why they did that in the movie (to make room for more toys) but it was definitely skewed at a more adult audience than Animated. And I feel like G1 is something you can enjoy as an adult. But kids will 'grow out' of Animated. For more proof of them skewing to a younger audience, check out the Autobots sidekicks. Spike was a 16 year old kid. Sari is what...8?

Also, to add one more thing, the focus on 'human supervillains' is ridiculous. Come on. There aren't enough Transformers to pull from for villains? Megatron sits up on blocks for almost all of Season 1 while the Autobots are chasing Green Arrow and The Flash knockoffs.


There are still things I do like about Animated.

1. The animation. It's a lot more active and interesting. Definitely more engaging.

2. Prowl. A ninja transformer? How can that not be awesome?

3. The reimagining of Transformers. While I say I didn't like Soundwave, and I thought that Constructicon homage, the giant space barnacle or whatever, sucked. But I've been happy with the others (though I am disappointed we have no Devestator so far).

4. The story arcs. G1 had plenty of multipart episodes, but I like that Animated has ongoing story arcs that they revisit. And good continuity as well. It definitely has that over G1.

[Autobot-Girl]

I agree with Roook

Ninjas + robots = AWESOME!!

and they REALLY need to get better human villains I mean REALLY, really

[Draven]

It's the Cartoon that is the most important thing. That's the most important commercial of the entire franchise, not those badly-coloured, almost non-distingushable drawings.
I don't even slightly agree with that in ANY way, shape or form. The cartoon IMO was utterly awful.
I do hope your comment about the COMIC having "badly-coloured, almost non-distingushable drawings" in a post where you extol the virtues of the lamentably badly animated CARTOON is supposed to be ironic.

[shroobmaster]

Maybe not in GI Joe. :P I admit, I was never a big GI Joe fan. But could you imagine GI Joe getting the 'animated' treatment? It'd be like GI Spongebob Joepants.

As for Transformers. I include the movie as a part of G1. And the first 20 minutes of that is a Transformer massacre. Everyone from Ironhide to Optimus Prime get wasted. Could you imagine Transformers Animated killing off Bulkhead? Or Prowl? No way. I understand why they did that in the movie (to make room for more toys) but it was definitely skewed at a more adult audience than Animated. And I feel like G1 is something you can enjoy as an adult. But kids will 'grow out' of Animated. For more proof of them skewing to a younger audience, check out the Autobots sidekicks. Spike was a 16 year old kid. Sari is what...8?

Also, to add one more thing, the focus on 'human supervillains' is ridiculous. Come on. There aren't enough Transformers to pull from for villains? Megatron sits up on blocks for almost all of Season 1 while the Autobots are chasing Green Arrow and The Flash knockoffs.


There are still things I do like about Animated.

1. The animation. It's a lot more active and interesting. Definitely more engaging.

2. Prowl. A ninja transformer? How can that not be awesome?

3. The reimagining of Transformers. While I say I didn't like Soundwave, and I thought that Constructicon homage, the giant space barnacle or whatever, sucked. But I've been happy with the others (though I am disappointed we have no Devestator so far).

4. The story arcs. G1 had plenty of multipart episodes, but I like that Animated has ongoing story arcs that they revisit. And good continuity as well. It definitely has that over G1.

Uhh the barnacle wasn't a constructicon homage, the machines it attacked were.

[Particle_Beam]

I don't even slightly agree with that in ANY way, shape or form. The cartoon IMO was utterly awful.
I do hope your comment about the COMIC having "badly-coloured, almost non-distingushable drawings" in a post where you extol the virtues of the lamentably badly animated CARTOON is supposed to be ironic.Nope. I do compare it to the Marvel-comics, however, if there's any difference to the newer IDW-comics.

[ian5555]

G1 cartoon looked alot better then the Marvel comics drawings imo but IDW stuff is like 100x better then the TFA cartoon it's like comparing kids finger paintings to the Mona Lisa.

I disagree that the comics were not important. The Marvel comics were alot more important to kids back then what were they 60-75 cents? A series doesn't last what 6-7 years if it not making $$. Now they are 3-4 bucks a comic and geared more towards adults, kids don't buy them. The cartoon and well actually the Movie is what generates interest for kids now but it was both back in the 80's.

[Feralstorm]

But eventually, the fans will become more and more persuaded into Animated, and all of the haters will eventually die out. It's just a matter of time.

Sounds good, but if there's still the occasional BW hater out there, there will be at least some AnimHaters remaining well after the series has run it's full course.

[nkelsch]

G1 cartoon looked alot better then the Marvel comics drawings imo but IDW stuff is like 100x better then the TFA cartoon it's like comparing kids finger paintings to the Mona Lisa.


The only way you can compare 22 pages of comic-book stills to a 22 minute animated cartoon is if you know nothing about animation.

And A series with IDW style art as animation would be prohibitively expensive to make and not appeal to kids. So if the simplistic animation is cheaper to make and more appealing to the target demo, what is the problem? You do know they focus test this stuff.

Take a history of animation class. Cartoons don't need to be hardcore detailed to be good. The medium actually promotes simplistic animations for storytelling purposes.

[Dark_Convoy]

Love the show and the story line, I'm even warming up to the designs in the cartoon.

Still not a big fan of the toys though. :(

[brr-icy]

People don't love the G1 show, they love the G1 mythos that has be built on the show. They love the expanded mental designs that is based on years of comic and fandom filling in the blanks to complete the characters from the horrible 2-dimensional cores they started as.

i don't read the comics, but i love the show, probably because it's animated, not computer animated. a heck of a lot more work went into g1 than any other series to date, and btw i love animated, so there's no point in calling me a geewunner, i liked the movie, bought the toys, displayed for a month and got bored of them, now they're in a box, but animated are staying on my shelf, not just for the homage factor, but for the originality that doesn't suck factor

[shockwave_store]

G1 is still the best........PERIOD!!!

[Chaos Prime]

Why is there some TF fans that absolutely hate this show and think G1 is so much better? I mean I myself grew up on G1 and it will always have a place in my heart, but I find Beast Wars and Animated to be more enjoyable because of the character development and most importantly the CONTINUITY. I mean seriously, they had three different origins on how the Constructicons were made.

1. In "Heavy Metal War" Megatron says he built them on Earth.

2. In "The Secret of Omega Supreme" they were friends with everyone's favorite guardian robot until Megatron used some sort of device to turn them into Decepticons. This contradicts the first origin

3. In "Five Faces of Darkness" the constructicons where the ones who built Megatron.......I believe I've made my point here.

1) I think the Constructicons were rebuilt on Earth to mimic earth vehicles.
2) it's possible back on Cybertron the Constructicons were the Constructibots, and then Megatron used the Robo Smasher on them.
3) Perhaps Megatrons origins have been clouded by mystery that when Rodimus was inside the Matrix it simply chose Decepticons that Rodimus would recognize more then an accurate history recording.

[Insane Galvatron]

1) I think the Constructicons were rebuilt on Earth to mimic earth vehicles.
2) it's possible back on Cybertron the Constructicons were the Constructibots, and then Megatron used the Robo Smasher on them.
3) Perhaps Megatrons origins have been clouded by mystery that when Rodimus was inside the Matrix it simply chose Decepticons that Rodimus would recognize more then an accurate history recording.
Actually, when Megatron was built, there were no factions. Everybody was just Transformers. When Orion Pax told Silverbolt about the "new flying transformers", he was talking about Megatron. I think they built him and didn't expect him to turn evil. He later built the robo-smasher and converted them. Then on earth, he re-built them into contstructon vehicles.

[shroobmaster]

Or maybe y'know whoever wrote that Omega Supreme episode completely forgot about that line in Heavy Metal War?

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Actually, when Megatron was built, there were no factions. Everybody was just Transformers.

Your mixing up comic history with the toon history.

The factions in the toon were established long before Megatron was built.

The Quintasons had Cybertron working as a factory creating 2 lines or robots.Consumer goods robots used as slaves and servants and military robots used in wars.

When A3 [Alpha Trion] led the rebellion against the Quintasons and won their freedom the two lines chose names for themselfs.

The Consumer robots called them selfs Autobots while the military robots called them selfs Decepticons.

And Megatron did not start the war.There have been a cival war on Cybertron for millions of years before Megatron was built.But there were periods of peace in between.

When Orion Pax told Silverbolt about the "new flying transformers", he was talking about Megatron.

Yes he was but the thing that was so special was that they could fly.

I think they built him and didn't expect him to turn evil. He later built the robo-smasher and converted them. Then on earth, he re-built them into contstructon vehicles.

Thats been one of my theories.

[ian5555]

The only way you can compare 22 pages of comic-book stills to a 22 minute animated cartoon is if you know nothing about animation.

And A series with IDW style art as animation would be prohibitively expensive to make and not appeal to kids. So if the simplistic animation is cheaper to make and more appealing to the target demo, what is the problem? You do know they focus test this stuff.

Take a history of animation class. Cartoons don't need to be hardcore detailed to be good. The medium actually promotes simplistic animations for storytelling purposes.

I can compare anything I want too. I can't believe you suggested that in order to have an opinion on a preference in drawings that I need to take a class. That has to be the most obsurd thing I have ever read.

You missed my point anyway, where imo G1 cartoon was much better drawn then the marvel comics. The same could not be said for IDW and TFA the comic and cartoon of this time where I think the comic is drawn better.

The roles have switched which is my point where IDW is more for adults and TFA for kids where G1 cartoon and comic was just for kids.

[nkelsch]

I can compare anything I want too. I can't believe you suggested that in order to have an opinion on a preference in drawings that I need to take a class. That has to be the most obsurd thing I have ever read.


You can compare anything you want, it just makes you look foolish.

Please compare 80's marvel comics to 2005 IDW comics and forget the advancements in computers and digital art and printing that has revolutionized print comics. Comparing basic apples to genetically cloned apples grown with modern farming machinery and advanced fertilizers.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

You can compare anything you want, it just makes you look foolish.

Please compare 80's marvel comics to 2005 IDW comics and forget the advancements in computers and digital art and printing that has revolutionized print comics. Comparing basic apples to genetically cloned apples grown with modern farming machinery and advanced fertilizers.

Not to get in the middle of something but I still think your missing his post.

He's not comparing the 80's marvel comic to the 2007 IDW comics.

What he's trying to say that in the 80's the cartoon was animated far better then the comic was drawn......but its ironic that the 2007 IDW comics is Drawn much better then TFA is animated.

So it looks like this.

80's toon :thumb

80's comics:thumbdown

07 toon:thumbdown

07 comics :thumb

In his opinion.

[TrailbreakerADK]

Though, we all love G1 in our hearts, in my opinion, TFA has better plot and characterization, and that matters to me. I seriously don't mind the animation/art style, in fact, I like it. Yes, for those who said that this show is aimed for kids, you are correct. That's the target audience, it's always been. Transformers in general is aimed for kids.

[ian5555]

Not to get in the middle of something but I still think your missing his post.

He's not comparing the 80's marvel comic to the 2007 IDW comics.

What he's trying to say that in the 80's the cartoon was animated far better then the comic was drawn......but its ironic that the 2007 IDW comics is Drawn much better then TFA is animated.

So it looks like this.

80's toon :thumb

80's comics:thumbdown

07 toon:thumbdown

07 comics :thumb

In his opinion.


Thanks, I thought it was obvious too as not once did I compare the two comics. How ironic that he ends up looking foolish. Hope you didn't pay too much for those history of animation classes. I'd ask for a refund.

[nkelsch]

Thanks, I thought it was obvious too as not once did I compare the two comics. How ironic that he ends up looking foolish. Hope you didn't pay too much for those history of animation classes. I'd ask for a refund.

No, you still don't understand the mediums you are comparing which makes your opinions uninformed.

You might as well be comparing the Mona Lisa to the Flintstones and say the Flintstones animation sucks because the Mona Lisa was painted so well.

If you don't understand the mediums and continue to compare non-comparable things. If you don't understand the process of drawing a comic vs animating a TV show then how can you even attempt to compare them. Maybe if you compared the animation to other post-computer revolution cable TV animation, you might have some input, like "avatar the last air bender has much better animation that TF:A" That would be two items that can be legitimately compared.

But then you would have to understand the recent retro style trend that the target audience prefers recently, so there ar valid economic reasons and target demographic demands for them not choosing a more detailed and expensive 'style' to animate. This is where you can say "I don't like it in my opinion, but I understand I am an adult and not the target demographic."

And every college degree requires an intro art credit and most US universities have history of animation because it is a native US art form. You can learn some things like how and why Tom and Jerry which came before the Flintstones had such better animation but then you can see why they were both revolutionary for their time.

[SilverDragon]

2. Optimus Prime. He can be a serious ass on the show. He's pigheaded, stubborn, and doesn't respect his team. They talk back to him and have no respect for him. The first episode I saw was the Blackarachnia one which really colored my view of him as being a coward and something of a moron. Everything from not even looking for Elita-1 to see if she survived, to ordering the dinobots to be destroyed without listening to Prowl's suspicions they had a spark. G1 Optimus Prime is one of those legendary heroes who kids grew up learning morals and courage from. He's a hero. Not so in Animated, where he acts more like a teenager. Also Bumblebee is annoying as hell. So is Sari.

Wait, wait, WAIT. I don't recall him ordering the destruction of the Dinobots. He was just agreeing with Sumdac's thoughts on what should be done with them. Plus, given that other robots without sparks manage to speak and do stuff in the show's setting, Optimus has good reason to believe that they're nothing more than simple robots.

Also, if I remember correctly, he didn't go looking for Elita-One because he couldn't detect her energy signature. No use looking for a dead person in a cave system infested with giant alien spiders.

He's "a serious ass" because he's not the high-and-mighty hero that G1 gave us. Even so, G1 Prime could be something of a jerk too-the original Dinobots, for example.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

No, you still don't understand the mediums you are comparing which makes your opinions uninformed.

You might as well be comparing the Mona Lisa to the Flintstones and say the Flintstones animation sucks because the Mona Lisa was painted so well.

If you don't understand the mediums and continue to compare non-comparable things. If you don't understand the process of drawing a comic vs animating a TV show then how can you even attempt to compare them. Maybe if you compared the animation to other post-computer revolution cable TV animation, you might have some input, like "avatar the last air bender has much better animation that TF:A" That would be two items that can be legitimately compared.

But then you would have to understand the recent retro style trend that the target audience prefers recently, so there ar valid economic reasons and target demographic demands for them not choosing a more detailed and expensive 'style' to animate. This is where you can say "I don't like it in my opinion, but I understand I am an adult and not the target demographic."

And every college degree requires an intro art credit and most US universities have history of animation because it is a native US art form. You can learn some things like how and why Tom and Jerry which came before the Flintstones had such better animation but then you can see why they were both revolutionary for their time.

Well I understand what he's trying to say and before you try to tell me that I dont understand understand both mediums let me tell you this.

I hold a certificate's in "Sequential art""Major film and TV animation" and "Commercial illustration" that I attained at the Joe Kubert School of Cartoon and Graphic Art.

I'm also a graduate of New York University's Film Program.I worked at Marvel comics as an intern durring the 90's so I am not "Uninformed" on this topic or both mediums and I completely understand what he's trying to get across here.

[nkelsch]

Well I understand what he's trying to say and before you try to tell me that I dont understand understand both mediums let me tell you this.

I hold a certificate's in "Sequential art""Major film and TV animation" and "Commercial illustration" that I attained at the Joe Kubert School of Cartoon and Graphic Art.

I'm also a graduate of New York University's Film Program.I worked at Marvel comics as an intern durring the 90's so I am not "Uninformed" on this topic or both mediums and I completely understand what he's trying to get across here.

He feels the stills drawn in the IDW comics are drawn better than the Animated Stills.

He feels the G1 stills were drawn better than the Marvel comic stills.

There is a reason why they are not animating 22 minute episodes based on the IDW style and detail. Because for the most part it is cost prohibitive, and it is not what the target demo wants to see.

I still think comparing a still comic panel to an animated shot of the same detail is not comparable because you basically are comparing the top of the line anime animation to pretty common and basic comic book illustrations. It is infinitely easier and cheaper to illustrate and color a comic now adays VS animate a series using the same style. Would we all like a batman TV series based on the style of animation we saw in the anime dark knight DVD they just released? good luck making 52 episodes of that. Even Anime series cheap it up except for key plot points. Also, compare the comic printing industry of the mid 80's. Printing Technology was crude, on bad material with a limited range of ink colors. We didn't have digital inking or a wide array of shades. We had dots and crossthatches. There was a very good chance a vibrant painted animation cell was going to look better even if they used the exact same illustration.

So on a lot of levels they can't be compared. Or if you do compare them you gotta understand the issues and problems behind them. If people think IDW style art fully animated for a kid series is reasonable and makes sense then I would say their expectations unreasonably high and they will never like a TF cartoon ever again.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

He feels the stills drawn in the IDW comics are drawn better than the Animated Stills.

He feels the G1 stills were drawn better than the Marvel comic stills.

There is a reason why they are not animating 22 minute episodes based on the IDW style and detail. Because for the most part it is cost prohibitive, and it is not what the target demo wants to see.

I still think comparing a still comic panel to an animated shot of the same detail is not comparable because you basically are comparing the top of the line anime animation to pretty common and basic comic book illustrations. It is infinitely easier and cheaper to illustrate and color a comic now adays VS animate a series using the same style. Would we all like a batman TV series based on the style of animation we saw in the anime dark knight DVD they just released? good luck making 52 episodes of that. Even Anime series cheap it up except for key plot points. Also, compare the comic printing industry of the mid 80's. Printing Technology was crude, on bad material with a limited range of ink colors. We didn't have digital inking or a wide array of shades. We had dots and crossthatches. There was a very good chance a vibrant painted animation cell was going to look better even if they used the exact same illustration.

So on a lot of levels they can't be compared. Or if you do compare them you gotta understand the issues and problems behind them. If people think IDW style art fully animated for a kid series is reasonable and makes sense then I would say their expectations unreasonably high and they will never like a TF cartoon ever again.

But what you dont seem to understand is that none of that matters when your talking about one's opinions,tastes and wants.

Your trying to reason with the logistics and of the improvements of both mediums in the last 20+ years and he's trying to tell you what he would like to see.

You cant defeat want and desire with logic.You really cant.

Its like trying to TELL someone that "The Wopper" tastes better then "The Big Mac".

That would be just your opinion and maybe that of many but not the opinion of everyone.

Regardless of what one understands about the issues behind a problem you can still want and wish for something else.

Look at the world of politics for example.

We're told over and over again that there isint enough money to feed the hungry or give shelter to the homeless or medicate the sick but we have more then enough money to destroy foods of other,destroy their homes and make them sick.

Now I'm sure there's a logic reason for all this, I even understand some of it, but it doesnt make me stop wanting and wishing for a better tomorrow.

[loudstone]

But what you dont seem to understand is that none of that matters when your talking about one's opinions,tastes and wants.

Your trying to reason with the logistics and of the improvements of both mediums in the last 20+ years and he's trying to tell you what he would like to see.

This is definitely true. Though the one place where logic does fit into this, is that currently it would be impossible to have the same level of drawing detail in an IDW book in a cartoon... at least, without requiring a lot more time, a lot more money, or both. It's not just a matter or advancements in the medium... as long as the characters are hand drawn, there is a limit to how fast those drawing can be produced.

I love animated, but I would love an animation with that style of detail. I think the only thing we can hope for would be a DVD release like the Marvel and DC straight to DVD films we've seen recently. That gets around the time restrictions of needing an episode every week, plus it gets around some of the cost because they would be making money immediately off of DVD sales (so they may be willing to invest more). If they did something like a Classics animated movie, they would not only sell like hotcakes (at least within the fandom, though I assume outside too), but they would have a related toy line as another stream of income.

[OptimusSolo]

It just comes down to the animation style, I hate how they look so I cant watch it no matter how good it may or may not be

Same reason i cant stand most of the cartoons these days, I just dont like the 'new' way thing look and are animated. Same reason I cant watch anime i guess...

[ian5555]

He feels the stills drawn in the IDW comics are drawn better than the Animated Stills.

He feels the G1 stills were drawn better than the Marvel comic stills.

There is a reason why they are not animating 22 minute episodes based on the IDW style and detail. Because for the most part it is cost prohibitive, and it is not what the target demo wants to see.

I still think comparing a still comic panel to an animated shot of the same detail is not comparable because you basically are comparing the top of the line anime animation to pretty common and basic comic book illustrations. It is infinitely easier and cheaper to illustrate and color a comic now adays VS animate a series using the same style. Would we all like a batman TV series based on the style of animation we saw in the anime dark knight DVD they just released? good luck making 52 episodes of that. Even Anime series cheap it up except for key plot points. Also, compare the comic printing industry of the mid 80's. Printing Technology was crude, on bad material with a limited range of ink colors. We didn't have digital inking or a wide array of shades. We had dots and crossthatches. There was a very good chance a vibrant painted animation cell was going to look better even if they used the exact same illustration.

So on a lot of levels they can't be compared. Or if you do compare them you gotta understand the issues and problems behind them. If people think IDW style art fully animated for a kid series is reasonable and makes sense then I would say their expectations unreasonably high and they will never like a TF cartoon ever again.

You are trying to overcomplicate this. Cost is not a reason to say while you can't compare those two things. The New York Yankees team salary is $210 Million per year and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays is 43 Million per year so by your reasoning I can not compare them? That is ridiculous.

I don't have to understand how something is made to formulate an opinion on them. I like green grapes more then red grapes, I don't have to know the difference between them. How are they grown? How do the make them seedless? These questions are unimportant to me only taste is.

Anyway, I was simply pointing out that the opposite is true to me for the respective cartoon/comic version on which is better in each era to me. Hell, I like the drawing in G1 better then TFA